australia v india

[axeman23]

axeman - the difference between you and us is we will admit that our team can get a bit over th etop - but we will defend it.... but acknowledge fault... you are clutching at straws thinking harbajahn wasn't out the keepers glove was NOWHERE near the ball... I'm sorry but a team cannot complain about the same sort of behaviour they exhibit.... and you can justify that as much as you want... but its still the same thing... frankly I wouldn't even complain about that... I don't complain about what happens ont he cricket field - cos it happens.... you wouldn't say ANYTHING about this if AUstralia was acting this way and lost every test frankly yer just a sore loser. The fact that backs this up is your inability to accept that your team India is being a tad hypocritical. You have to defend them by saying it happened in 2006 - fact is INdia and Pakistan are two teams guilty of over appealing... thats been going on for years heaven forbid australia finally catch on....

To be fair, I never said I thought it wasn't out, I just said with where the keeper was standing, where his gloves were situated, it wasn't altogether unreasonable to at least QUESTION if there'd been a ricochet from the keeper's gloves onto the stumps. When Harbajahn had finished his shot, the keeper was stooped over the bails, with his hands still moving forward. As for acknowleding if your team has gone over the top on something, that may be fair in your case as well as some of the more reasonable posters here, and I have no problem admitting some of my critisism is one-eyed, but so has the critisism of the Indians by some Aussie fans here. And as for Australia finally "catching up" with over-appealing, I disagree whole heartedly. Australia are hardly Jonny-came-lately in this regard, and are also the main culprit with sledging, which only became an issue because an Aussie got sledged.

 

[axeman23]

Your kidding aren't you ?!?
The more BS you dribble like that the more it consolidates the fact that you have no idea !!!
(IMHO)

Oh, thats right... Ponting's not arrogant, he's just confident...

 

[Allstar cards inc]

Oh, thats right... Ponting's not arrogant, he's just confident...

Just so you're clear about what you're talking about....the Macquarie Dictionary definition of -

arrogant - adj. - having or showing too high an opinion of one's importance or rights; very proud: an arrogant teacher; arrogant behaviour.

confident - adj. - 1. having strong belief; sure: confident of victory. 2. sure of oneself; bold: a confident bearing. 3. overbold

I don't believe the Aussies or Ponting in particular have too high an opinion of their importance....they are however very proud. The defintion of confidence is definately more appropriate

As far as arrogance goes (and I reckon he's a changed man since he was dropped) you'd have to say some of Sourav Ganguly's behaviour (when he was captain) in keeping Steve Waugh waiting in the middle for the toss. Steve Waugh accused Ganguly of "disrespect" for making him wait at the toss during the series.

It just goes to show that neither side is perfect.....it is just a game.....but the stakes are high and both teams want to win desperately. Sometimes the boundaries between right and wrong...fair and unfair are stretched in pursuit of victory....even Ganguly himself has come out in todays papers and said -

"I admired how desperate they were to win. That's why they have won so many Test matches. They sense a chance of a win and would do anything to get it," he said.

It'll get sorted out one way or the other next Wednesday when the 3rd Test begins....and it'll be an absolute cracker!!!!

 

[wolvesjr34]

To be fair, I never said I thought it wasn't out, I just said with where the keeper was standing, where his gloves were situated, it wasn't altogether unreasonable to at least QUESTION if there'd been a ricochet from the keeper's gloves onto the stumps. When Harbajahn had finished his shot, the keeper was stooped over the bails, with his hands still moving forward. As for acknowleding if your team has gone over the top on something, that may be fair in your case as well as some of the more reasonable posters here, and I have no problem admitting some of my critisism is one-eyed, but so has the critisism of the Indians by some Aussie fans here. And as for Australia finally "catching up" with over-appealing, I disagree whole heartedly. Australia are hardly Jonny-came-lately in this regard, and are also the main culprit with sledging, which only became an issue because an Aussie got sledged.

I don't necessarily agree with the slegding either but here's the thing you are forgetting - Symonds already said in India that monkey is a no go zone that he deems it racially wrong.... if a player says that... and you say it (again I cannot claim to know if Singh did say it) is racially offensive and the term is then used again in a diff series - thats racial and that player should be brought forward - sledging is one thing although Aussie are too good at that in my book - but racial comments regardless should not be allowed...

I'd be saying the same thing if Ponting or anyone else had used a term that was middle of the road, had been informed it was racially ofensive, and used it again.

And Aussie do and have been appelaing excessively for years, but so have a lot of teams... its just an issue when umpires don't have the guts or the skill to make the right decision.

 

[HBM]

When you're good, you can be arrogant. If you're arrogant and losing... then there's a problem.

As for India, they are doing nothing more than holding this series to ransom to get their player off. Why is it that when an Indian (or Muslim cleric, for that matter) says something that is offensive, it always ends up that he was either taken out of context, or "misunderstood"?

 

[ace e]

Why is it that when an Indian (or Muslim cleric, for that matter) says something that is offensive, it always ends up that he was either taken out of context, or "misunderstood"?

Did the Muslim cleric say something about cricket??
If not then i dont think he fits into this thread.

 

[HBM]

Did the Muslim cleric say something about cricket??
If not then i dont think he fits into this thread.

Perhaps you're taking me out of context?

 

[ace e]

Perhaps you're taking me out of context?

Maybe but if you had said a certain cleric than it may of fit ( when the microphone is on they tend to bait easily) but you categorized a religion and that puts all Muslim clerics in it.

 

[wjrwebber]

Lets not forget that Indians are predominately Hindu, not Muslim and since Harbajhan wears a turban then that would make him a Hindu.

 

[HBM]

However, point being, at what point do people start taking responsibility for what they say, as opposed to copping out with these "misunderstandings"?

In the case of Singh, he has almost successfully transformed himself from guilty to victim, which is a sad indictment on our pysche as a nation, eating up the BS that is served on matters such as this.

 

[ace e]

I hope for crickets sake (and the test series) that all these distractions add to the quality of the games to come and it ends up being a cracker of a series otherwise its just going to leave a bad taste for all involved.

 

[axeman23]

I don't necessarily agree with the slegding either but here's the thing you are forgetting - Symonds already said in India that monkey is a no go zone that he deems it racially wrong.... if a player says that... and you say it (again I cannot claim to know if Singh did say it) is racially offensive and the term is then used again in a diff series - thats racial and that player should be brought forward - sledging is one thing although Aussie are too good at that in my book - but racial comments regardless should not be allowed...

I'd be saying the same thing if Ponting or anyone else had used a term that was middle of the road, had been informed it was racially ofensive, and used it again.

And Aussie do and have been appelaing excessively for years, but so have a lot of teams... its just an issue when umpires don't have the guts or the skill to make the right decision.

I have to say I agree with maybe 98% of that comment for sure. The only thing that I have a small issue with is how Symonds thought he had an agreement with Harbajhan on the matter. I'm sure they did come to some sort of agreement, but from the Indian side it seems the agreement was: "Symonds doesn't start anything, and Harbajahn or any Indian won't retort with anything, pertaining to "monkey". " From what I've seen, Symonds broke the agreement first. Does he deserve to be called names he considers racially offensive because of that? No, but you can see why the agreement was thrown out the window, if in fact it was, by the Indians...

 

[theflyinggerco]

Lets not forget that Indians are predominately Hindu, not Muslim and since Harbajhan wears a turban then that would make him a Hindu.

Harbhajan is a Sikh, and India is nearly entirely Hindu; the reason that Pakistan, Bangladesh and India are all different countries is due to the tensions between Muslims and Hindus.

As far as calling Symonds a monkey, if Symonds has told Harbajan that's its a highly offensive term to him, for whatever reason, the excuse that Symonds baited him by teasing him is ridiculous.

And in regard to the Aussies being a bit up themselves, does anybody remember the bullshit Harbajan pulled when he got Ponting out in 2nd Innings? That pretty much confirmed in my mind that the guy is the biggest dickhead in world cricket, and pretty much anything he does is out of basic stupidity.

 

[ljandkg]

Harbhajan is a Sikh, and India is nearly entirely Hindu; the reason that Pakistan, Bangladesh and India are all different countries is due to the tensions between Muslims and Hindus.

As far as calling Symonds a monkey, if Symonds has told Harbajan that's its a highly offensive term to him, for whatever reason, the excuse that Symonds baited him by teasing him is ridiculous.

And in regard to the Aussies being a bit up themselves, does anybody remember the bullshit Harbajan pulled when he got Ponting out in 2nd Innings? That pretty much confirmed in my mind that the guy is the biggest dickhead in world cricket, and pretty much anything he does is out of basic stupidity.

So as for the Aussies being a bit up themselves? What's ur point - u agree or not?? We all know Singh is a bit of a head case and has a short fuse - he also is Indias best bowler and has it all over Ponting and a few others in that team from time to time. Ponting's the best player in the world - If I got him out I'd be blending all Brett Lee's over the top w#$kfest celebrations into one!!!!

 

[wolvesjr34]

So as for the Aussies being a bit up themselves? What's ur point - u agree or not?? We all know Singh is a bit of a head case and has a short fuse - he also is Indias best bowler and has it all over Ponting and a few others in that team from time to time. Ponting's the best player in the world - If I got him out I'd be blending all Brett Lee's over the top w#$kfest celebrations into one!!!!

Yeah cannot blame a guy for enjoying getting Ponting out - cos face it Harbajahn is the one guy capable of stopping Ponting. And its psychological... Singh is not the best bowler in the world with regards to spin etc - Ponting has improved his play against spin - the fact is... he is totally psyched out by Harbajahn! He needs to just pretend it's a monkey bowling to him (said with absolute jest and no racial comments meant at all nor any offense meant - just making light of it all) so he can get past it.

 

[Richo]

Bad Boys of Cricket

So what do you guys think about this table:

Bad Boys of Cricket over the last 10 years
Team ----- Offences
India ------------43
Pakistan -------- 39
South Africa ---- 27
Australia -------- 25
England -------- 21
Sri Lanka- ------ 18
Zimbabwe ------ 15
New Zealand --- 14
West Indies ---- 13

It doesn't look like India should be MOUTHING off about how Australia plays the game when they are THE WORST Team out there!!!

THEY have protested their innocence throughout the racism saga, but besieged India is the worst behaved team in world cricket - according to official ICC data.

As the tourists persist with threats to abort their tour, official ICC data shows the Indians have faced more sanctions than any Test-playing rival over the past 10 years.

Former Indian captain Sourav Ganguly is the game's undisputed problem child, being hauled over the coals by the governing body a record 12 times.

Overall, Indian players have been charged for 43 infringements since 1997 for offences including intimidating umpires, abusing rival players, ball tampering, time wasting and dissent.

Of the touring party, five Indians have copped fines or suspensions -- Ganguly, Sachin Tendulkar, Rahul Dravid, Virender Sehwag and Harbhajan Singh.

The rap sheet is damning evidence the Indians are anything but choirboys as they continue to vehemently deny spinner Harbhajan is guilty of racially abusing Australian all-rounder Andrew Symonds.

Despite the raft of indiscretions, Indian cricket board vice-president Lalit Modi said the sub-continent powerhouse did not have an attitude problem.

"Sometimes you see sides carry on when the stakes are high, but we are not one of them," Modi said from India.

"I am sure there have been incidents with the Indian team in the past, but in the two years I have been on the board, I have not seen such behaviour problems with our team.

"I am not privy to the facts you have. We have not done such research, but our boys are generally well behaved.

"Most of our players are very good. In the past, there was some incidents involving Ganguly, but he has not had an issue for some time.


Analysis of the ICC's code of conduct breaches over the past decade show:

ONLY Pakistan came close to India's ill-discipline with 39 offences, led by retired batsman Inzamam-ul-Haq, who was hauled up 11 times.

DESPITE claims they have worse conduct issues than India, Australia is ranked fourth with 25 infringements.

Glenn McGrath (six), Ricky Ponting (four), Adam Gilchrist (four) and Brett Lee (three) are the serial offenders.

HARBHAJAN has a history of poor conduct. The first of his five offences came in 1998, when he was fined 50 per cent of his match fee for abusing Ponting after having him stumped.

INDIAN pace bowler Shanth Sreesanth is emerging as cricket's next bad boy. Ruled out of the Test series with injury, Sreesanth was charged four times in nine months between December 2006 and September 2007.

DRAVID and Tendulkar, regarded as two of the most squeaky-clean figures in world cricket, have been caught ball tampering. Tendulkar was fined 75 per cent of his match fee in 2001, while Dravid was fined 50 per cent for altering the ball's condition in a one-dayer against Zimbabwe in Brisbane in 2004.

However the main culprit is Ganguly. The former skipper has forked out about $50,000 in fines for offences ranging from abusing players and umpires to bringing the game into disrepute for failing to control his team.

In a 15-month period between 2004 and '05, Ganguly committed a staggering five breaches -- his final act was for unfair play for time wasting that saw him banned for four one-day games.

Since his return to the Test side last year, Ganguly has kept a clean slate, but he flagged India's mindset last month when he said his side would not be bullied by the home team.

"That is not a worry for us," said Ganguly following a drama-charged seven-match one-day series in India.

"What happened in India for me is in the past, but for Australia, maybe not. They will try to pressure us and they may say some things but we have many senior players who can handle that.

"Winning in Australia is always difficult, but we are confident.

"This is probably the most experienced Indian team to come to Australia in quite a while. We know what to expect from them."

 

[ljandkg]

Re: Bad Boys of Cricket

So what do you guys think about this table:

Bad Boys of Cricket over the last 10 years
Team ----- Offences
India ------------43
Pakistan -------- 39
South Africa ---- 27
Australia -------- 25
England -------- 21
Sri Lanka- ------ 18
Zimbabwe ------ 15
New Zealand --- 14
West Indies ---- 13

It doesn't look like India should be MOUTHING off about how Australia plays the game when they are THE WORST Team out there!!!

We'll that's all cool Richo but we're talking about the last test and it's not like the few who are complaining on this thread are lone voices... I've still heard very few opinions voiced on Clarke regarding his 'catches', his 'send off' ("f$%^ off!") after apparently 'catching' Ganguly and the like.

No ones arguing with the fact Harby (I'm sick of trying to spell his name) and the Indians have a history. I think the last few thousand pages of this thread have been about the behaviour of the Aussie team.
Are u happy with the way they play when under pressure??

 

[Richo]

Are u happy with the way they play when under pressure??

To be honest - Yes I am but that doesn't mean any of this is OK from other peoples point of view as it is only my opinion.......I was a pretty fired up fast bowler when I played and I got away with a lot worse than any of this stuff going on (So I am not exactly the right person to ask). The reason I posted the last little article is because it sort of got up my nose that India say Australia are not playing in the spirit of the game when they are the worst for it!!! If you do the research (Like I did) you will see India has been done for ball tampering, intimidating Umpires, abusing Umpires, abusing other players and now Racial abuse - all within the last couple of years !!!

I wouldn't be bringing it all up if they weren't aiming post shots at the Australians for things they do more often !!!


Looking at the Table I posted before, Apart from NZ & West Indies, I would say MOST Teams are not playing within the Spirit of the game.

 

[wolvesjr34]

Also I think you need to take into account the amount of cricket teams play the top four teams probably play more cricket than anybody else (test, ODI, 20/20 etc).... more cricket... more tempers flaring.... and a lot of India/Pakistan incidents owuld have been between the two nations - the two countries are almost always going to war - so you can understand heightened tensions in game and that spilling over.

I cannot comment on the Clarke incidents as I didn't see them - and the reason I haven't seen them is cos the Media is trying to crucify Ponting instead. Which I think is wrong, one game and a couple of misguided choices/actions do not deserve crucification. Hell he got less crucifiction when he stumbled out of a bar room brawl....

I am at the point where I am so over this. India have to face the fact that they don't own the ICC and have to deal with what comes from it - conveniently I might add its Brad Hogg who is going to be disciplined on the Aussie side - what exactly for I don't know... that seems strange to me. I would have thought some other players (Ponting, Clarke, Symonds) may be up for fines etcetera for unsportsmanlike conduct.

You see I agree that some of their behaviour was bullshit, but I wouldn't call it cheating - labelling Ponting a cheat is what got up my goat the entire time. Suffice to say I think Axeman and I are almost seeing eye-to-eye now - amazing really

 

[ljandkg]

Hogg called a couple of them bastards, that's all. Also Wolvey I think u will find India nd Pakistan are VERY careful when they play each other - they know if there's any aggro wars start!!

Richo - we'll agree to disagree on standards of behaviour then. Can see yr point about India - I never said they were holier than thou. I just think Aussie need to clean up their act - there's no point having a gentlemans agreement about catches if one or two players are gonna cheat - and I know that's a strong word but....