With all the talk about young Australians caught in Indonesia on drugs-related stuff, it seems Australia as a whole has got on the Van Nguyen "band-wagon" too little too late. Now he will be hanged at 6am next Friday. Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy for those who import and supply hard drugs (even "party" drugs, but there's less risk for these users apparently...). But when you weigh up all the factors involved, there is no doubt in my mind he does not deserve death, or even life in prison. I mean, it was his first time overseas, so there's no suggestion of him being a repeat offender, he VOLUNTEERED the drugs, while being questioned, and has been telling all he knows to both Aussie and Singaporean police, and his reasons for doing the run in the first place were completely selfless! He would not have gained one cent if successful, all he wanted to do was save his brother, who had run up debts to the wrong people, who would've killed his brother had payment not been made! I mean, people say: "Get a better job to pay it off.", but when criminals want their money, they want it NOW! Anyone know of a job just anybody can get that pays $30,000 in in say, 3 months? I sure as hell don't, or I'd have that job! Seriously, I'd like to see any of the pro-hanging bunch have their brother/sister under threat of death, and then have them say: "Sorry, you're on your own..." It just doesn't happen in proper society! What they should be doing, if our govt had any balls, is rounding up the syndicate who was behind it and exchanging them for Nguyen! I don't know the guy, but the fact he's the same age as me, and the fact that I will wake up next Saturday and he will not, really hit home... What's everyone else's opinions? Agree or disagree?
6 days left for Van Nguyen... Any thoughts?
- Thread starter axeman23
- Start date
- Status
tezzajw
OzCardTrader
- Messages
- 60
- Location
- Near Melbourne.
My initial thoughts were 'fuck him, let him hang'.
However, I don't think he deserves to die for what he did. Keep him in jail for a few years - sure. He did commit a crime, but for fuck's sake save the rope for cold-blooded murderers, terrorists and kiddy-rapers.
Download this song by Iron Maiden: "Hallowed Be Thy Name" and read the lyrics...
However, I don't think he deserves to die for what he did. Keep him in jail for a few years - sure. He did commit a crime, but for fuck's sake save the rope for cold-blooded murderers, terrorists and kiddy-rapers.
Download this song by Iron Maiden: "Hallowed Be Thy Name" and read the lyrics...
tezzajw
OzCardTrader
- Messages
- 60
- Location
- Near Melbourne.
If he hangs, what can we do?
Ban yourself from buying anything Singaporean. Don't visit there, don't have anything to do with them in any way or support their country.
If we had a goverment with balls, we wouldn't put up with half as much shit as we do. Johnny fucking Howard trying to bowl a cricket ball in Afghanistan costing us another 50 Mil in donations???
What the hell is that??? Spend 50 Mil here improving OUR way of life!!!
Fuck Indonesia too - no more hand-outs to them. No more hand-outs to Iraq or Pakistan or any other shit-hole country on the face of the Earth. Let their governments stop spending their money on their military, so all of a sudden they will be able to FEED and SHELTER their own fucking people!!!
We live on a planet that is dominated by stupid people who are content with being told what to do and kept in line by fear.
Ban yourself from buying anything Singaporean. Don't visit there, don't have anything to do with them in any way or support their country.
If we had a goverment with balls, we wouldn't put up with half as much shit as we do. Johnny fucking Howard trying to bowl a cricket ball in Afghanistan costing us another 50 Mil in donations???
What the hell is that??? Spend 50 Mil here improving OUR way of life!!!
Fuck Indonesia too - no more hand-outs to them. No more hand-outs to Iraq or Pakistan or any other shit-hole country on the face of the Earth. Let their governments stop spending their money on their military, so all of a sudden they will be able to FEED and SHELTER their own fucking people!!!
We live on a planet that is dominated by stupid people who are content with being told what to do and kept in line by fear.
Trey
David Robinson Collector
your points are valid, and take a very sympathetic approach.
But im sorry, smuggling drugs just doesnt fit into my criteria of being altruistic.
So here's my rant, and this is assuming the whole brother in need story is true...
1) yes the brother should feel guilty, his bad behaviour has turned into hurting those he loved, what a surprise. Honestly, Karma in any shape and form, mystical or otherwise...you do something that you know is wrong, you dont only hurt yourself, but its like a rubber band...pulling backwards, with the pontential to snap when someone you love walks through...
2) Was it "only" 30 grand? If so, Id probably been able to come up with it in more "safer" illegal ways then smuggling drugs from a country that has the death penalty...like cmon, you weigh up the pros and cons...I need to save my brother, quick way to do it is drugs, we can do this smuggle in singapore...but they have a death sentence....hmm thats not good, lets try something else...
3) sell your car, sell all your shit, go flog some VCRs...hell push drugs in Oz to the junkies, but dont go smuggling shit from countries that have death sentences...helping your brother in need would be to give him all your savings, sell some shit of value, and scrape as much $ as you can to help him a little. You have a few mates do the same and you can come up with some decent scratch.
4) responsibilty is something that noone seems to know about! There is a reasonable excuse for everything, with the ultimate either being god, allah, or the government. The government sets the rules to which we play this game, you break the rules, you have the mental capacity to figure right from wrong and to weigh up the risks, he thought he could get away with it, he got caught, now its everyones fault but his own....if he steps foot into australia, those drugs coulda ended up in the arm of my mate (a recovering herion user) he OD's, then a whole more bunch of people are grieving...all because some punk got caught up with bad fuckers...
5) is the singaporean govt too strict? yes...you can get fucked up for having chewing gum, but those are their rules, you step onto their court, you play their game...fair enough I say. And to which they have very "few" problems...
But im sorry, smuggling drugs just doesnt fit into my criteria of being altruistic.
So here's my rant, and this is assuming the whole brother in need story is true...
1) yes the brother should feel guilty, his bad behaviour has turned into hurting those he loved, what a surprise. Honestly, Karma in any shape and form, mystical or otherwise...you do something that you know is wrong, you dont only hurt yourself, but its like a rubber band...pulling backwards, with the pontential to snap when someone you love walks through...
2) Was it "only" 30 grand? If so, Id probably been able to come up with it in more "safer" illegal ways then smuggling drugs from a country that has the death penalty...like cmon, you weigh up the pros and cons...I need to save my brother, quick way to do it is drugs, we can do this smuggle in singapore...but they have a death sentence....hmm thats not good, lets try something else...
3) sell your car, sell all your shit, go flog some VCRs...hell push drugs in Oz to the junkies, but dont go smuggling shit from countries that have death sentences...helping your brother in need would be to give him all your savings, sell some shit of value, and scrape as much $ as you can to help him a little. You have a few mates do the same and you can come up with some decent scratch.
4) responsibilty is something that noone seems to know about! There is a reasonable excuse for everything, with the ultimate either being god, allah, or the government. The government sets the rules to which we play this game, you break the rules, you have the mental capacity to figure right from wrong and to weigh up the risks, he thought he could get away with it, he got caught, now its everyones fault but his own....if he steps foot into australia, those drugs coulda ended up in the arm of my mate (a recovering herion user) he OD's, then a whole more bunch of people are grieving...all because some punk got caught up with bad fuckers...
5) is the singaporean govt too strict? yes...you can get fucked up for having chewing gum, but those are their rules, you step onto their court, you play their game...fair enough I say. And to which they have very "few" problems...
I certainly agree with some of your points, Trey. While I think Van was trying purely to do whatever he could to save his brother, if his brother had've been more responsible the whole sad situation could've been avoided. I also realize if the heroin reached Australia, it COULD have caused the death of someone from an overdose, or at least a dependancy lowering the quality of that person's life. But if I was placed in a situation where there was a chance someone I'll probably never meet might suffer some ill effects if I want to save my family, I'm sorry, I'd choose my family every time... A major point for me is, at least 3 or 4 of the Bali 9, for example, had made several runs before their luck ran out. The four "mules" said when they were caught, that their families would be killed if they didn't do it. If that was the first time they done it, I might be more inclined to believe them. But police there reported that Renae Lawrence for 1, had been there 3 times previously, each time with a different pass-port, in the last 2-3 years. If she had time to do 2-3 runs, she had time to alert police to the threat. Van gets caught the first time, with a tenth of the Bali 9's ammount, with a story that has checked out, and he gets the same punishment? Also, his co-operation has led to the arrests of some members of the syndicate involved, so his story is obviously legit...
Also, you mentioned there are other ways to earn the money, some more questionable than others. But if you only have a limited time to get it together, short of armed robbery at a bank, what can you do? I mean, his family was poor, he had no father, and his only brother was obviously irresponsible, so there's basicly him paying for his mother, brother, and I think he had 2 sisters? Then the brother (who if nothing else can be done should substitute himself if it is allowed...) goes out and racks up huge debts to criminals for gambling. I'm sure if Van had've known about the debts earlier, before they got too big, he would've tried to nip it in the bud, but he didn't know. And Carlos, sure the rules are the rules, but shouldn't there be some leniency for extenuating circumstances? I mean, if someone breaks into your house and you shoot them, do you deserve the same penalty as someone who follows a girl home late at night and drags her off and kills her? I mean, they both end with someone dead, but certainly one's more understandable? Get what I'm trying to say?
ducky_poo
Ultimate Hawks Collector
unfortunitly for him he got caught doing an illegal act and therefore has to pay the consequences.
we may not think its right but thats their law.
ps just as a general thought about it all, with shappel, bali 9, van and then that model
you'd have to be insane to try anything like that
we may not think its right but thats their law.
ps just as a general thought about it all, with shappel, bali 9, van and then that model
you'd have to be insane to try anything like that
Daniel: The example you gave is a law itself: Self-defense. If I kill a person who was trying to harm me or my family, it's not punishable by death in most cases. And I'm sure what you just said as well are all covered by the governments in each country (penalties for specific criminal acts according to severity etc..)
This topic is subject to personal opinion, and shouldn't be debated as we will get nowhere.
You should always go down to the roots, or the foundation of the death penalty.. and that as well depends on your own beliefs and faith.
For me, as a Christian, I believe that the Bible is the foundation of everything, and God Himself established the death penalty to His people, the Jews. ALSO, the Bible clearly states that the authorities on earth (ie; the governments), are there because God put them there (Romans 13) and that the people governed by those authorities MUST submit to them, for they bear the sword for a reason (authority to execute punishment to laws they put up).
Now again, those are my beliefs/faith, and IM SURE someone would attest to that, and Im not up for debate. I already started a topic about this on another forum and it had 200+ posts.
Colin had it right on: They had that law. Van got caught (as well as Chapelle, Leslie, and Bali 9). There's no excuse for them not to be subject to the consequence of that law (Unless proven innocent of all charges).. or if the country where the crime was commited have certain degrees/levels of punishment which depends on the crime's severity (ex: amount of drugs smuggled, etc.) So again, it's up to the country involved and they have every right to uphold that law. If it's majorly inconsiderate (ex: death for kids under 13 who steal), then just hope the constitution won't stand very long.. but in the meantime, do your best to obey the law.
This topic is subject to personal opinion, and shouldn't be debated as we will get nowhere.
You should always go down to the roots, or the foundation of the death penalty.. and that as well depends on your own beliefs and faith.For me, as a Christian, I believe that the Bible is the foundation of everything, and God Himself established the death penalty to His people, the Jews. ALSO, the Bible clearly states that the authorities on earth (ie; the governments), are there because God put them there (Romans 13) and that the people governed by those authorities MUST submit to them, for they bear the sword for a reason (authority to execute punishment to laws they put up).
Now again, those are my beliefs/faith, and IM SURE someone would attest to that, and Im not up for debate. I already started a topic about this on another forum and it had 200+ posts.
Colin had it right on: They had that law. Van got caught (as well as Chapelle, Leslie, and Bali 9). There's no excuse for them not to be subject to the consequence of that law (Unless proven innocent of all charges).. or if the country where the crime was commited have certain degrees/levels of punishment which depends on the crime's severity (ex: amount of drugs smuggled, etc.) So again, it's up to the country involved and they have every right to uphold that law. If it's majorly inconsiderate (ex: death for kids under 13 who steal), then just hope the constitution won't stand very long.. but in the meantime, do your best to obey the law.
tezzajw
OzCardTrader
- Messages
- 60
- Location
- Near Melbourne.
How would you feel about that bullshit argument of 'their country - their law' if it was one of your friends or family that was caught.
What if it was one of your friends or family that was set up and framed???
You would be arguing a different line then to save a family member from hanging for importing drugs.
Cigarettes cause the deaths of thousands of people each year - do you see tobacco company executives swinging from a rope? No! Why? Because the government profits from the taxes on them! AS IF they will EVER be forced to shut down! It's freedom of choice to smoke or not.
If they legalised drugs, then it would be freedom of choice to use them or not. As it is, no government on the planet can stop the supply of drugs, so if they fucking tax them and make it legal - there goes your crime wave. Governments have already proven they don't give a shit about health problems - otherwise they would ban smoking (and drinking).
It's a fucked-up planet. Let the drug users all O/D so we can cull the weak minded, pathetic scum users.
Anyway, this topic will turn into a flame war... You can't argue against people's personal beliefs - as Kidd said. Everyone thinks they are right and it will turn ugly.
What if it was one of your friends or family that was set up and framed???
You would be arguing a different line then to save a family member from hanging for importing drugs.
Cigarettes cause the deaths of thousands of people each year - do you see tobacco company executives swinging from a rope? No! Why? Because the government profits from the taxes on them! AS IF they will EVER be forced to shut down! It's freedom of choice to smoke or not.
If they legalised drugs, then it would be freedom of choice to use them or not. As it is, no government on the planet can stop the supply of drugs, so if they fucking tax them and make it legal - there goes your crime wave. Governments have already proven they don't give a shit about health problems - otherwise they would ban smoking (and drinking).
It's a fucked-up planet. Let the drug users all O/D so we can cull the weak minded, pathetic scum users.
Anyway, this topic will turn into a flame war... You can't argue against people's personal beliefs - as Kidd said. Everyone thinks they are right and it will turn ugly.
tezzajw said:
I would be extremely sad and hurt if it was a family member and would probably be saying something else, but I would be of course wrong and would be saying it out of an emotional desperate state. Getting framed is a different topic altogether but those things are out of our control mate. People are dumb in general and would always fall into things like these.
tezza said:
That there sums it all up nicely.
WoobieZarz
OzCardTrader
I agree that it's complet stupidity to do or TRY to do something like this, but I dont agree that the kid deserves to die.
I mean, what's murder these days, 10-20 years?? IF THAT!
Sure, he's a fuckwit for trying it, but I dunno....
I mean, what's murder these days, 10-20 years?? IF THAT!
Sure, he's a fuckwit for trying it, but I dunno....
I just think that if the government was really serious about trying to get this guy off of death row, they would have done something 3 years ago when he was originally charged and convicted.
I don't wanna see the guy swing, but too little too late.
I don't wanna see the guy swing, but too little too late.
Well, it looks like those who wanted a hanging got their wish... No use arguing anymore, but screw the Singaporeans! I hope that bloody PM has the balls tobring his ass over here and face the music now he's shown he's big enough to hang on of ours! Besides, what the hell do we need Singapore for, bloody NOODLES??? He deserved to be punish, but I think anyone who supported his hanging should be forced to watch a video of him going blue, and simultaeneously shitting and pissing himself as his legs kick their last movements! Won't be so bloody gung-ho then, will they??? This isn't a personal attack to any on the site who have expressed a view on the subject different to mine, so please don't think it's aimed at you... My anger is at the Singaporean "government", (which is little more than a glorified dictatorship) and those who voted them and their bloody legislated murder in!
I still reckon the media did a pretty good job manipulating the emotions of the people regarding this. It happens everyday. Here, they make a martyr out of a drug smuggler. I don't go around preaching YES to capital punishment, but I still support it.
The big factor here is that Van is still young, and that he is Australian.. plus, I think death by hanging is too brutal. Why not just use lethal injection? As Tezza said before, our views and opinions would change if we ourselves were directly involved: If you were a family member of the person getting executed or if you were say a parent of a teenager who died of drug overdose.
Our world is a mess. If there aren't any laws, it would be worse.
Let's all just pray for Van's soul. He claims he had peace while in death row because he said "I found the true meaning of life" and some say it was his faith. I just hope it's true and the correct faith. Most people need to be in a desperate state to change. This might have not been the case if he only had 15 years to pay for this crime.
The big factor here is that Van is still young, and that he is Australian.. plus, I think death by hanging is too brutal. Why not just use lethal injection? As Tezza said before, our views and opinions would change if we ourselves were directly involved: If you were a family member of the person getting executed or if you were say a parent of a teenager who died of drug overdose.
Our world is a mess. If there aren't any laws, it would be worse.
Let's all just pray for Van's soul. He claims he had peace while in death row because he said "I found the true meaning of life" and some say it was his faith. I just hope it's true and the correct faith. Most people need to be in a desperate state to change. This might have not been the case if he only had 15 years to pay for this crime.
Fishy
OzCardTrader
- Messages
- 65
- Location
- Perth,Western Australia
no offense but this guy had what was coming to him he knew the consequences going there and coming back so he had only himself to blame there not our laws theretheres,i dont here the singaporeans interfering with our policy on drug smugglers so why should we
Therethere??? Thats a bit fucking patronizing, don't u think? I'm not trying to start any more arguements, as what is done is done... But someone DIED today, without any proof that the drugs he was importing would cause 1 single death! BTW, if there's a murderer, or child rapist on death row, especially a repeat one who shows no remorse, fine! Kill the bastard! But not a bloody FIRST TIME drug mule (not drug dealer/syndicate, see the difference?) who only done what he did to save his brother's LIFE! I mean, if his brother was in for an ass-kicking, let him take it... But if he's gonna die, I'd bloody hope you'd do whatever you could to save him! And what, the pov bastards can't afford a bullet to make it quick? Hanging is bloody barbaric, and should've gone out with the 1800's in my opinion... And I would like to see anyone say "therethere" to his mother. If someone could, they've got problems...
And the whole thing is like the Singaporeans watch "Minority Report" 1 too many times, and decided to charge the guy with murders he hadn't had a chance to commit yet. I mean, the only justification in this case could be people dieing from ODing on the stuff? So how the hell would they know, when no-one had taken it yet?
BTW, sorry if I'm a bit abrupt with my responses... I got a call from a friend of over 15 years last night, and Van is his cousin. He was blubbering like a baby about the impending execution, which is very out of character for him as he has a strong personality... It just really hurt me to hear my mate in such a state, and I've been pissed (quite literally) pretty much since 4:00 yesterday.
Fishy
OzCardTrader
- Messages
- 65
- Location
- Perth,Western Australia
my god are you naieve outta 27,000 hits a herion are you sayin not one person would die of an od statistics show that outta all the herion distrubuted 10% of people die from od's
and one of your other points if van went over to singapore to save his brother howcome his brother is still alive and also we should all know what a nice person he is 3yrs in prison for drug trafficking and a suspended sentence for a mechete attack
and one of your other points if van went over to singapore to save his brother howcome his brother is still alive and also we should all know what a nice person he is 3yrs in prison for drug trafficking and a suspended sentence for a mechete attack
- Status
Similar threads
