Sellers should not be able to leave bad feedback/ CARD Condition listing

[HUSTLER]

As a seller you should not be able to leave bad feedback.... this is also how it now works on ebay..... Either Nuetral or Positive

I left a Neg feedback for a person on here, and now he has left neg feedback for me just becuase i left a neg feedback.

I am just suppose to lie and leave Positive feedback soas i dont ruin my reputation??

Makes it hard to leave neg as a buyer when you know that your going to get one back!!! ( and threatened with a neg before i left it for a 2nd time)

If the purchaser has paid with in the agreed time, then there should not be an issue with giving the person positive feedback. Pretty Simple Really!!!


ALSO,
I suggest that this forum implements a WHAT IS A MINT CARD DESCRIPTION , all the way from 10/10 MINT to 1/10 VERY POOR. With all to have an extensive description... This will stop people from having the excuse that they didnt not know what a mint condition card meant. IE BENT WORN CORNERS IS NOT MINT!!!

Thanks

 

[graham]

The seller left you bad feedback as he offered you a full refund on a card you were not happy with, and you declined. You left negative feedback for the seller, and the seller left you negative feedback as you declined the full refund yet still wanted to complain about it.

I think the seller is quite justified in leaving you a negative in this instance, as his experience with you was a negative one, so why can't he let others know of this experience with you ? I am the first person to remove retaliatory feedbacks, however I do not believe that is the case in this instance, so the feedback will stand. As you once said to me "what's the point in having a negative feedback option if you can't use it?"

Don't think that just because you a buyer you can be a protected species like on eBay. This isn't eBay. Never has been, never will be.

Condition of a card is subjective. The word mint is an often misused statement - whats mint to you, may not be mint to the next person, may not be mint to another, and will probably not be mint to me. If you are concerned about the condition and cannot tell from the photos/scans of a card, it is up to you as the buyer to request additional scans of a card.

 

[HUSTLER]

The seller left you bad feedback as he offered you a full refund on a card you were not happy with, and you declined. You left negative feedback for the seller, and the seller left you negative feedback as you declined the full refund yet still wanted to complain about it.

I think the seller is quite justified in leaving you a negative in this instance, as his experience with you was a negative one, so why can't he let others know of this experience with you ? I am the first person to remove retaliatory feedbacks, however I do not believe that is the case in this instance, so the feedback will stand. As you once said to me "what's the point in having a negative feedback option if you can't use it?"


Condition of a card is subjective - whats mint to you, may not be mint to the next person, may not be mint to another. If you are concerned about the condition and cannot tell from the photos/scans of a card, it is up to you as the buyer to request additional scans of a card.

1.The seller lied about the condition of the card
2. I paid for it, i choose not to return it, thats my rightful decision.
3. It was only bad because he got bad feedback!!!!!!
4. It was only bad because he lied!!!
5. HE STILL GOT HIS MONEY FOR A CARD THAT WAS WRONGLY DESCRIBED... WHATS HE GOT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT

If the conditoin of the card is SO subjective then a GUIDE would be very handy!!! MOST of us trust the other person when they say a card is mint, what a pain in the arse it would be if we had to take 5 pics of every card we wanted to sell/trade !!!

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:16 PM ----------

Anyway, i was making a suggestion for the forums not trying to get back to my situation, so there was no need to make my first post so personal towards my situation. maybe you should stay on topic!!

If you didnt like the idea you just had to say so.....

 

[chadjaja]

Giving cards grades out of 10 is a very subjective thing and honestly 70% of members probably couldn't do it accurately.

I'll keep it simple as you asked.

I don't like the idea.

 

[HUSTLER]

Giving cards grades out of 10 is a very subjective thing and honestly 70% of members probably couldn't do it accurately.

I'll keep it simple as you asked.

I don't like the idea.

But do you agree that a card that is MINT is a 10/10 card with NO issues??

 

[chadjaja]

In the eyes of a professional grader yes. But I have spent too many years in the hobby with condition sensitive cards to say nothing is certain when it comes to grading.

MINT is the most over used and abused word in the hobby.

 

[HUSTLER]

In the eyes of a professional grader yes. But I have spent too many years in the hobby with condition sensitive cards to say nothing is certain when it comes to grading.

MINT is the most over used and abused word in the hobby.

And that being my point.... Everybody just states the card is mint, and they are not even checking their cards!!!

 

[chadjaja]

Most I would say quote NrMt after all thats the accepted condition of cards straight out of the pack.

If you aren't happy with the condition of the card and you can't agree on it then returning or refunding the card solves it all. All you lose is a bit of postage and no one forces you to trade with that member you believe overstates the condtion of cards again.

Simple. Problem members where the issue arises continually will be dealt with. The odd card disagreement about condition can be solved and handled much more easily.

 

[Allstar cards inc]

And that being my point.... Everybody just states the card is mint, and they are not even checking their cards!!!

If you are finding that everybody is overstating the condition of their cards, then surely you must make allowances for this when it comes time to make a purchase.

Ask for clearer scans/better pics...if the card arrives not as described or viewed in the scans then you can mount a case.

 

[A1CardsandGaming]

I am a little confused !!!

So its not up to the seller to disclose any serious flaws in the cards they are selling ???

If you are offering a card or cards for sale then it is up to "YOU" to make sure that it is in good condition !!! I am sure plenty of us check over our cards that we have purchased, why should it be any different when you are selling them....

If a seller decides to risk it then they also risk getting negative feedback.......... experienced collectors have no excuse selling Shiit conditioned cards especially if they don't have the decency to disclose the "true" condition

As for accepting a refund (where i am guessing the buyer has to pay post too) Just like Ryse getting his logoman sent in bad condition, he wanted to desperately add that card to his collection so why should accepting a refund be the only option. The seller will more than likely try to sell it again and possibly rip off another buyer (not directed at anyone !)

How does "not accepting" a refund constitute a Negative feedback.... sounds like a retalitory negative to me

I have a Current situation where a card i purchased (that i want to keep) had a few small creases around the patch area and a dinged corner. I didn't see flaws in the pic and i would expect if its being offered for sale with zero flaws stated in the description then that is exacty what i should receive.... I didn't send him anything different than what I was charged

I asked about getting something in compensation but no reply even after pointing out my wantlists

Does this mean that If i don't accept a refund (which i would not want) i then run the risk of getting a negative feedback if I gave a negative for items not sold as described or Items sold damaged...

If its possible can Someone please clear this up for me !

My comments are not related to this particular case but in general

 

[HUSTLER]

I am a little confused !!!

So its not up to the seller to disclose any serious flaws in the cards they are selling ???

If you are offering a card or cards for sale then it is up to "YOU" to make sure that it is in good condition !!! I am sure plenty of us check over our cards that we have purchased, why should it be any different when you are selling them....

If a seller decides to risk it then they also risk getting negative feedback.......... experienced collectors have no excuse selling Shiit conditioned cards especially if they don't have the decency to disclose the "true" condition

As for accepting a refund (where i am guessing the buyer has to pay post too) Just like Ryse getting his logoman sent in bad condition, he wanted to desperately add that card to his collection so why should accepting a refund be the only option. The seller will more than likely try to sell it again and possibly rip off another buyer (not directed at anyone !)

How does "not accepting" a refund constitute a Negative feedback.... sounds like a retalitory negative to me

I have a Current situation where a card i purchased (that i want to keep) had a few small creases around the patch area and a dinged corner. I didn't see flaws in the pic and i would expect if its being offered for sale with zero flaws stated in the description then that is exacty what i should receive.... I didn't send him anything different than what I was charged

I asked about getting something in compensation but no reply even after pointing out my wantlists

Does this mean that If i don't accept a refund (which i would not want) i then run the risk of getting a negative feedback if I gave a negative for items not sold as described or Items sold damaged...

If its possible can Someone please clear this up for me !

My comments are not related to this particular case but in general

Exactly, of coarse it is a retaliation neg!!! If i had of left positive or nutrual, then i would have gotton the same back!!!

Exactly my point with purchasing the card, i paid for it, it is mine. I do not have to return the card. And i am not going to be the one who is explaining to my 5 year old nephew why he cant have that card anymore. i am sorry but where is the clause that says i must return the card if not happy!!!!

Anyway, i am glad that he left me neg feedback, people that read my feedback will now know that if they send me **** they will not get away with it and it will make ppl check what they are sending me!!

So to answer your question, if you are sent a card thats is GROSELY over rated and you refuse a refund, then you willl get a neg feedback saying you are rude because you didnt accpet their refund!!! HOW RUDE IS THAT!!

I AM THE ONE LEFT DISSAPOINTED!!! NOT THEM!!!!!!

 

[ducky_poo]

imo its buyer beware anywhere

get a pic to see what its like

ask specific questions not just hows the card

why should a seller have to give a 100 word paragraph on the card before saying its for sale

 

[chadjaja]

There is a difference between a 1/1 card like that logoman and most other cards. Most times we will look at each case on its own merits and to be honest the attitude shown by members to each other can contribute a lot to the decision. Yes some eBay sellers might just relist it and continue to move it on but we aren't talking ab out damaged cards, just ones with some slight flaws that the buyer assumes is MINT which is obviously to me unrealistic thinking to start with. I'd doubt ANYTHING being sent to me as MINT unless it came slabbed with a 10 next to it ;-)

I think if there was a problem and the seller communicates and goes out of their way to help fix the problem then they are doing their selling duty and showing members here they are prepared to work things out. The option is then up to the buyer if they want to keep the card over the flaws they think it has. Partial refunds can help here but in some cases thats been refused too so I deem then members aren't going to be happy no matter what.

Putting the condition grading in members hands will never work period.

And sellers do have the right to comment on a deal, this place isn't run for profit and listing fees. Trying to get two happy parties is the main objective and if there is a problem and the buyer refuses all attempts to fix the problem rather than saying 'tough luck' then a neg from their end is justified especially when the buyer has made it difficult. I feel for a buyer that gets a card not in the condition as described but if you keep the card and refuse a refund or part refund what else can a seller do. The sellers experience has been a negative one not just in feedback left alone.

I see it not as a seller/buyer. I see it as two members.

So there will be no condition reporting put on all cards in trades out of 10.
and
Sellers will still have the right to leave a neg if warranted.

This isn't eBay and this is pretty much the end of it.

 

[graham]

If I receive a card that is not in the condition I want, my first port of call is to the seller to try and work something out. Be it a return and full refund, or if I want to keep the card, then a partial refund of some description whether it be cards as reimbursement, or a % refund on the card. If the seller has done everything they could to make me happy (ie offered me a refund) and I refuse, do I have a right to leave a negative ?

Case in point, I did a trade with a member here for a card. My card was received ok, theirs never arrived. I offered to send them another card from the same set of equal value as reimbursement for the lost card and they declined. Do they now have the right to leave me a negative ? If I have done everything in my power to make good on a trade, is it warranted ?

That is my whole point here. I really do not think either member should get a neg. This guy has been completely unreasonable from the time this happened and I was trying to have it resolved amicably, but he wanted no part in that. He just wanted to give his neg ASAP and not to sort anything out. If he can be completely unreasonable, why can't I ? Sometimes it's the only way to get through to this type of person - clearly it hasn't helped.

When people make statements like they "will not let people get away with anything" it really shows their true colours and makes me question whether we want this sort of member involved in our community.

 

[dickyKnee]

But do you agree that a card that is MINT is a 10/10 card with NO issues??

None of the grading companies do.

 

[Richo]

The seller left you bad feedback as he offered you a full refund on a card you were not happy with, and you declined. You left negative feedback for the seller, and the seller left you negative feedback as you declined the full refund yet still wanted to complain about it.

I think the seller is quite justified in leaving you a negative in this instance, as his experience with you was a negative one, so why can't he let others know of this experience with you ? I am the first person to remove retaliatory feedbacks, however I do not believe that is the case in this instance, so the feedback will stand. As you once said to me "what's the point in having a negative feedback option if you can't use it?"

Don't think that just because you a buyer you can be a protected species like on eBay. This isn't eBay. Never has been, never will be.

Condition of a card is subjective. The word mint is an often misused statement - whats mint to you, may not be mint to the next person, may not be mint to another, and will probably not be mint to me. If you are concerned about the condition and cannot tell from the photos/scans of a card, it is up to you as the buyer to request additional scans of a card.

Husler, I have to back Graham on this (And Chad), I have had retaliation feedback removed from them before, they are VERY strict on it here so if it is not being removed it would be for good reason.

 

[howzat]

But do you agree that a card that is MINT is a 10/10 card with NO issues??

That would be a gem mint wouldn't it?

9/10 is mint isn't it?

As I have only been back into the hobby for the last year I am no expert, but it also seems like American and Australian cards are generally regarded differently amongst collectors as you never see Australian cards being put under the same professional scrutiny as American cards are subjected too, so it seems like a "mint" cricket card for instance, is different to a "mint" NBA card... IMHO

Anyway HUSTLER, I thought I had to jump on this after I saw who the deal was with as I have always had great dealings with that member on here and outside of this site! He is a top collector and I am sure that if you had of communicated with him, before jumping on the red button, that there would have been a totally different outcome... This particular member has sent me a bunch of cards and told me to "fix him up when I can", so I know he is a man of good integrity...

Anyway, as for members grading cards, or giving a guide to grading, I don't think that it would work! I think all you can do is if you are unsure, is too ask as many questions as you can about the centering, edges, surface etc etc and then make your judgements from the members responses!

This isn't eBay. Never has been, never will be.

Amen to that! I guess thats what makes this such a great community

 

[midnight_show]

My cats breath smells like cat food.

 

[bjs127]

Hi guys,

I only just became aware of this thread and, as the seller in question, I want to clarify my point of view - once and for all.

My situation was not a case of dishing out a retaliatory negative - rather my entire experience with this trade was forgettable and, in my eyes, was unreasonably dealt with by the buyer, so I wished to use my negative to voice my concerns to other OCT users about the way this seller handled a situation they were not happy with.

I listed the card in a FS thread with a photo of the card in question (Kernahan sig) and the price, and I labelled the card mint. I did not consider the card to have any damage, but it would seem I was wrong. From the pic I posted it seems of good order to me - obviously I don't have the card so I can't prove whether it was or wasn't, but I clearly had no intention is deceiving any potential buyers.

The "for sale" thread (and pic) can be seen here:

http://www.ozcardtrader.com.au/foru...ng-afl/51144-1994-select-signature-cards.html

Anyway I sent the card off and the way I knew that the buyer had received it was because I had a PM stating that feedback had been left from HUSTLER - and the feedback was a negative. There was no email to me before the negative, and therefore I had no chance to fix the situation. I contacted admin and asked that the negative be removed as I intended to contact the buyer and rectify the situation. It was removed as I PM'd HUSTLER to see what was wrong. His PMs were angry, hostile and aggressive - the same manner I see with which he has posted in this thread.

I offered a full refund on the card. This was declined - his reply was (and I quote), "No, i will not be sending the card back. I'm just going to put it down as a bad trade and not deal with you again. I will be leaving negative feedback again." So I ended up with another negative after contacting him and offering a full refund.

Hopefully you all understand this was not a retaliatory situation but an extremely negative experience with HUSTLER, and I recorded it as such. Indeed I feel this whole thread is somewhat off-topic because my negative was not retailatory at all, and I thank Graham and Chad for not seeing it that way.

As far as I am concerned the issue is now finished with.

And FWIW - I don't agree with retaliatory negs either!!

Happy card hunting. :v:
Brad

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Case closed. We are a great bunch in this community...we should all work out the problem so in the end, everyone can be happy and keep coming back for more deals. Amen to Graham.