NBA 70 @ 70

[JKiddfan#5]

Just thinking about the NBA 50 at 50 compiled in 1996/97. Caused a few arguments back in the day. We're almost 20 years on, so I thought about what the 70 at 70 would look like. I have put a list below of the players I consider up for a chance to be added to the 50.

I'd love see what you guys think. For example, If this list is created during the 2016/17 season, when the league turns 70, will guys like Steph Curry and Anthony Davis have done enough to get in (ala Shaq in '96/97)?

Here's my preliminary list of contenders:

Kobe
Lebron
Duncan
Dirk
JKidd
Iverson
Garnett
Nash
Pierce
Carter
Durant
TMac
DWade
Curry
DRose
A. Davis
Carmelo
Harden
Westbrook
CP3
Yao
D. Howard
CWebb
GHill
Glove
Kemp
Ray Allen
T. Parker
R. Miller

 

[GarnettFan4Life]

Great idea I'm going to have a look at this later. Interesting as to who of the new guys forces out some of the old top 50 list. I think Curry might be in but not Davis yet. Top 70 All Time! Still going to be tough!

Dominique Wilkins and Adrian Dantley going in it I think - were originally off the Top 50 list.

Another thing would be the voting system, why so few voters on the original list!

 

[GarnettFan4Life]

List is at about 90,
Currently deciding on if these should be in a Top 70:

Dave DeBusschere
Bill Sharman
Bill Walton
Gail Goodrich
David Thompson
JoJo White
Alex English
Artis Gilmore
Dikembe Mutombo
Vince Carter
Tracy McGrady
Dennis Johnson
Shawn Kemp
Dennis Rodman
Tony Parker
Pau Gasol
Carmelo Anthony
Dwight Howard

 

[GarnettFan4Life]

Greatest 70 at 70

No particular order

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Bill Russell
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Larry Bird
6. Magic Johnson
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. LeBron James
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. David Robinson
11. Karl Malone
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Charles Barkley
14. Patrick Ewing
15. Scottie Pippen
16. Moses Malone
17. Elgin Baylor
18. Clyde Drexler
19. Walt Frazier
20. George Gervin
21. Kevin Garnett
22. George Mikan
23. John Stockton
24. Isiah Thomas
25. Nate Thurmond
26. Wes Unseld
27. Jerry West
28. James Worthy
29. Bob Petit
30. Jerry Lucas
31. Pete Maravich
32. Julius Erving
33. Elvin Hayes
34. John Havlicek
35. Bob Cousy
36. Rick Barry
37. Sam Jones
38. Lenny Wilkens
39. Dolph Schayes
40. Kevin McHale
41. Billy Cunningham
42. Earl Monroe
43. Bob McAdoo
44. Dave DeBusschere
45. Bob Lanier
46. Robert Parish
47. Willis Reed
48. Bernard King
49. Alex English
50. Dave Cowens
51. Nate Archibald
52. Dave Bing
53. Allen Iverson
54. Chris Webber
55. Kevin Durant
56. Pau Gasol
57. Reggie Miller
58. Paul Pierce
59. Ray Allen
60. Gary Payton
61. Dwyane Wade
62. Jason Kidd
63. Dirk Nowitzki
64. Kobe Bryant
65. Tim Duncan
66. Stephen Curry
67. Dikembe Mutombo
68. Tony Parker
69. Vince Carter
70. Dennis Rodman

Controversial Omissions/Omissions:

Alonzo Mourning
Tracy McGrady
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Shawn Kemp
Gail Goodrich
Dennis Johnson
Hal Greer
David Thompson
JoJo White
Bill Sharman
Bill Walton
Paul Arizin
Artis Gilmore
Connie Hawkins




Notes:

• Being elected to the Basketball HOF doesn't automatically guarantee you should be in a Top 70 All-Time List in my opinion. The whole HOF process should be reviewed and be more transparent and fan-involving.
• Not just going on career averages here, tried to look at roles/parts played in championships and era played in etc.
• It's inevitable that people get pushed out of a list, especially one as small as this. It's just like the career points, assists averages etc, given time, someone will pass those on an all-time list and force others down.
• Should a Finals MVP or a Regular season MVP put you automatically in? Might not be the case.
• If it was borderline - say, picking between Pau Gasol and Adrian Dantley, I went with the retired player. The active player can improve their case in the years to come.
• Top 50 (or thereabouts) are a LOCK - bottom 20 could make a case to interchange MANY with some of the omissions, it's really close. Dave Cowens VS Artis Gimore, Chris Webber VS Chris Bosh etc etc
• Why so few voters (panel) in the original list in 1996? Makes sense now why Dominique might have been left out - if people didn't like him or not enough of the few voted then you didn't get in the Top 50. I'd open it up to more long-term media, more players and see what results came in. Here is the original panel:

Voters for the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (player), Marv Albert (media), Al Attles (team), Red Auerbach (team), Elgin Baylor (team), Dave Bing (player), Larry Bird (team), Marty Blake (team), Fran Blinebury (media), Bill Bradley (player), Hubie Brown (team), Wilt Chamberlain (player), Mitch Chortkoff (media), Bob Cousy (player), Billy Cunningham (team), Chuck Daly (team), David DuPree (media), Wayne Embry (team), Julius Erving (player), Joe Gilmartin (media), Sam Goldaper (media), Alex Hannum (team), Lester Harrison (team), John Havlicek (player), Chick Hearn (media), Red Holzman (team), Phil Jasner (media), Earvin Johnson (player), John Kerr (player), Leonard Koppet (media), Bob Lanier (player), Frank Layden (team), Leonard Lewin (media), Jack McCallum (media), Dick McGuire (team), George Mikan (player), Bob Pettit (player), Harvey Pollack (team), Jack Ramsay (team), Willis Reed (team), Oscar Robertson (player), Bill Russell (player), Bob Ryan (media), Dolph Schayes (player), Bill Sharman (player), Gene Shue (team), Isiah Thomas (team), Wes Unseld (team), Peter Vecsey (media), Jerry West (team)

 

[JKiddfan#5]

Greatest 70 at 70

No particular order

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Bill Russell
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Larry Bird
6. Magic Johnson
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. LeBron James
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. David Robinson
11. Karl Malone
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Charles Barkley
14. Patrick Ewing
15. Scottie Pippen
16. Moses Malone
17. Elgin Baylor
18. Clyde Drexler
19. Walt Frazier
20. George Gervin
21. Kevin Garnett
22. George Mikan
23. John Stockton
24. Isiah Thomas
25. Nate Thurmond
26. Wes Unseld
27. Jerry West
28. James Worthy
29. Bob Petit
30. Jerry Lucas
31. Pete Maravich
32. Julius Erving
33. Elvin Hayes
34. John Havlicek
35. Bob Cousy
36. Rick Barry
37. Sam Jones
38. Lenny Wilkens
39. Dolph Schayes
40. Kevin McHale
41. Billy Cunningham
42. Earl Monroe
43. Bob McAdoo
44. Dave DeBusschere
45. Bob Lanier
46. Robert Parish
47. Willis Reed
48. Bernard King
49. Alex English
50. Dave Cowens
51. Nate Archibald
52. Dave Bing
53. Allen Iverson
54. Chris Webber
55. Kevin Durant
56. Pau Gasol
57. Reggie Miller
58. Paul Pierce
59. Ray Allen
60. Gary Payton
61. Dwyane Wade
62. Jason Kidd
63. Dirk Nowitzki
64. Kobe Bryant
65. Tim Duncan
66. Stephen Curry
67. Dikembe Mutombo
68. Tony Parker
69. Vince Carter
70. Dennis Rodman

Controversial Omissions/Omissions:

Alonzo Mourning
Tracy McGrady
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Shawn Kemp
Gail Goodrich
Dennis Johnson
Hal Greer
David Thompson
JoJo White
Bill Sharman
Bill Walton
Paul Arizin
Artis Gilmore
Connie Hawkins




Notes:

• Being elected to the Basketball HOF doesn't automatically guarantee you should be in a Top 70 All-Time List in my opinion. The whole HOF process should be reviewed and be more transparent and fan-involving.
• Not just going on career averages here, tried to look at roles/parts played in championships and era played in etc.
• It's inevitable that people get pushed out of a list, especially one as small as this. It's just like the career points, assists averages etc, given time, someone will pass those on an all-time list and force others down.
• Should a Finals MVP or a Regular season MVP put you automatically in? Might not be the case.
• If it was borderline - say, picking between Pau Gasol and Adrian Dantley, I went with the retired player. The active player can improve their case in the years to come.
• Top 50 (or thereabouts) are a LOCK - bottom 20 could make a case to interchange MANY with some of the omissions, it's really close. Dave Cowens VS Artis Gimore, Chris Webber VS Chris Bosh etc etc

Great list Matt!

I too tried to look at a player's all-around game, as well as their impact on their team and the league. I have opted to honor the 50 that were named and more so "update" it rather than make corrections (I'd love to see Dominique on the list). When weighing up the difficult decisions I have also gone with the more experienced players, with the younger having another chance at the 80 year list .
I have chosen guys like D-Rose & Grant Hill (would have love to fit in Penny) for the same reason I wouldn't cut Bill Walton. Yes, they didn't play great for very long, but what they did do was exceptional. All three were game changers and their body of work, as brief as they were, have not been equalled by anyone.

So here's my 20 inductees to join the NBA's elite:

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Duncan
4. Dirk
5. JKidd
6. Iverson
7. Garnett
8. Nash
9. Pierce
10. Carter
11. Durant
12. Ray Allen
13. Parker
14. DWade
15. Curry
16. DRose
17. Payton
18. CP3
19. CWebb
20. GHill

 

[GarnettFan4Life]

Great list Matt!

I too tried to look at a player's all-around game, as well as their impact on their team and the league. I have opted to honor the 50 that were named and more so "update" it rather than make corrections (I'd love to see Dominique on the list). When weighing up the difficult decisions I have also gone with the more experienced players, with the younger having another chance at the 80 year list .
I have chosen guys like D-Rose & Grant Hill (would have love to fit in Penny) for the same reason I wouldn't cut Bill Walton. Yes, they didn't play great for very long, but what they did do was exceptional. All three were game changers and their body of work, as brief as they were, have not been equalled by anyone.

So here's my 20 inductees to join the NBA's elite:

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Duncan
4. Dirk
5. JKidd
6. Iverson
7. Garnett
8. Nash
9. Pierce
10. Carter
11. Durant
12. Ray Allen
13. Parker
14. DWade
15. Curry
16. DRose
17. Payton
18. CP3
19. CWebb
20. GHill

Yeah it was so tough! So many seemingly worthy candidates that when it came down to it if someone was 20pts 10reb for 6 seasons of their 12 but dropped off and other person was 18pts 9reb for 13 seasons I went with the latter for durability reasons and just doing it longer even though some injuries are just luck they can affect career tremendously.

Like your list though, I wanted to add Grant Hill so bad -he's one of the original guys that got me hooked on the NBA along with Penny and CWebb, but just couldn't do it.

 

[taffster74]

I think Detlef Schrempf should be in there somewhere for his contributions to the international Game. He was the first German (super) star and paved the way for Dirk. At the same time you have to consider Kiki Vandeweghe also - another German Great.

 

[JKiddfan#5]

A big fan of Detlef, would have loved him to have stayed at the Mavs a bit longer. But he was never "the man" on any of his teams, so I can't see a spot here for him. I agree, he was huge for European basketball though.
If I had one more spot, it would probably go to Mt Mutombo.

 

[taffster74]

TRue, Justin. Det was never the man, but he did contribute massively for both the pacers and the sonics. Without Schrempf, the sonics never made it past the first round of playoffs - if they made it. With schrempf - nba finals in 1996. Plus he was a back-to-back 6th man award winner, two time all-star and a major contributor to Pacer and sonic teams that went from wishers to perennial contenders. Not sure how Vandeweghe's teams went so maybe Det gets the nod over him.

 

[Ersk]

Damn!!!!! NBA 70 @ 70 makes me feel OLD!!!!!!!!!

Was there with the 50@50, keeping tabs on it, chasing the 50 guys and even buying up on the Topps 50 set. It has been another 20 years on!

I am really feeling old...........sad thing is I am still really hooked on the 80's and 90's basketball.

 

[thePACisback]

Hi, new here. Add to the 70:

Grant Hill
LeBron
Dirk
J Kidd
Kobe
AI
Duncan
T-Mac
Nash
Pierce
Dwight Howard
Tony Parker
KG
D-Rose
D-Wade
KD
Blake Griffin
CP3
Vince Carter
& John Wall
What do you think?

 

[GarnettFan4Life]

Hi, new here. Add to the 70:

Grant Hill
LeBron
Dirk
J Kidd
Kobe
AI
Duncan
T-Mac
Nash
Pierce
Dwight Howard
Tony Parker
KG
D-Rose
D-Wade
KD
Blake Griffin
CP3
Vince Carter
& John Wall
What do you think?

70 greatest ALL - TIME is a hugely tough ask. You'll likely always get some recency bias (that is,most of us voting here will have only seen players play from 1980 onwards and probably have some affectionate memories of the 90's epic playoffs battles and vote for people from around then and have to rely on stats and writings on how good Jerry West and etc were) but having said that I wouldn't include Rose or Wall in yet but they definitely have a chance to end up there or even in the 80 at 80 etc. Nice list.

 

[thePACisback]

70 greatest ALL - TIME is a hugely tough ask. You'll likely always get some recency bias (that is,most of us voting here will have only seen players play from 1980 onwards and probably have some affectionate memories of the 90's epic playoffs battles and vote for people from around then and have to rely on stats and writings on how good Jerry West and etc were) but having said that I wouldn't include Rose or Wall in yet but they definitely have a chance to end up there or even in the 80 at 80 etc. Nice list.

IMO John Wall is a better option to put in than AD, and if there was an 80 for 80, D-Rose would be a walk-up. Consider Shaq in at '96.

 

[skip20]

Great lists guys - pretty good summary overall.

Guys like Curry and AD - way too early imo. Of the new inductees I think CP3 or Steve Nash are more deserving of a spot than Tony Parker. Parker had great team success with the Spurs but if we're talking about the best players at the position I think you'd have to go for one of those two other guys.

Another thing is do you look at the players entire career or just their prime years (big call for guys like Bill Walton and T-Mac)? How does a guy sacrificing stats to play on a contender compare with a star player on a perennially sh*t team (HOF players like Mitch Richmond never seem to even get a mention in these sort of things whereas Ray Allen and Reggie Miller take the limelight - I'd take Mitch on my team anyday as the most well rounded out of all 3 of those guys)?

Maybe it's just me but Pau Gasol is one of the guys who annoys me when I watch him play - gaudy stats and titles too, but he does some stuff on the defensive end which makes my blood boil. Artis Gilmore over Pau for me. The hardest selections to distinguish for me are the high scoring SFs - King, English, Durant and Pierce are in but no Mullin, Wilkins, D Thompson, Dantley, T-Mac or even Melo etc. Pierce had some success in the Finals but the rest of these guys are basically all big scorers who didn't do too much else (at the risk of over-simplifying things).

One final point is that these lists are always in favour of offensive minded players at the expense of defensive minded beasts. I'm not saying they belong in the top 70 but guys like Mark Eaton, Ben Wallace, Alvin Robertson, Sidney Moncrief or Bruce Bowen? All I'm saying is that there are plenty of one way offensive players on these lists, but there's nowhere as many one way ELITE defensive specialists which I always find a curious phenomenon.

...and BUMP for an interesting topic!

 

[GarnettFan4Life]

who else wants to add a list?