How great is Shaq, really?

jimboiitmac · Dec 19, 2008

I was just watching some Dwight Howard clips, and looking at his stats. The man is insane, nearly 15 boards per game, nearly 4 blocks, 20+ points and an insane FG% - But I thought to myself, he could do so much more for his game.

Before I can put Dwight Howard up there with Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Chris Paul, Nash, Dirk and those guys in terms of their game, he has so much to expand.

Which lead me to to think about Shaquille O'Neal, was his game much more expanded than Dwight's?

I mean 4 rings, 3 Finals MVP's, regular season MVP, 20,000+ points they speak for themselves but how developed was his offensive repetoire?

I know he had the hook shot, short jumper in the lane, and of course the slamma jamma but what else did he do?

He was a presence on defense, he had a spin move on O, but how great is Shaq or was he really, could he have expanded his game much more than it was?

K.O.B.E · Dec 19, 2008

Watching Shaq now.

He's doing pretty well and has done some stuff i didn't think he could do anymore.

pennysdaman · Dec 19, 2008

jimboiitmac said:
I was just watching some Dwight Howard clips, and looking at his stats. The man is insane, nearly 15 boards per game, nearly 4 blocks, 20+ points and an insane FG% - But I thought to myself, he could do so much more for his game.

Before I can put Dwight Howard up there with Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Chris Paul, Nash, Dirk and those guys in terms of their game, he has so much to expand.

Which lead me to to think about Shaquille O'Neal, was his game much more expanded than Dwight's?

I mean 4 rings, 3 Finals MVP's, regular season MVP, 20,000+ points they speak for themselves but how developed was his offensive repetoire?

I know he had the hook shot, short jumper in the lane, and of course the slamma jamma but what else did he do?

He was a presence on defense, he had a spin move on O, but how great is Shaq or was he really, could he have expanded his game much more than it was?

Jimbo i see your point but if you look at Shaq in his Rookie Yr very one demensional!!Pass to Shaq in the paint then Dunk or Layup....
93 94 Was abit better for him was still developing as a young player..
mush the same as 94 95..
The 95 96 he really developed his inside game with the Baby Hook/Spin Move in the Low Post pretty Much unstoppable in is prime, But then saying that Dwight doesnt really have any decent oppisition at his spot..
Back in the day Shaq had the likes of Hakeem, D-Rob, Ewing Alonzo and the likes who does Dwight have to compete against???

In short i dot think he could have expanded his game anymore than he did, well except for his Foul Shooting....
Just my 2Cents

Cobretti · Dec 19, 2008

Don't take this too personal, but I think Dwight Howard is over rated, compared to other players playing atm. Like pennysdaman said, Shaq had better opponents that me played against.

nenjabin · Dec 19, 2008

Expand his game? All I am thinking right now is "If it ain't broke, why fix it?". If you can be that successful as to put up 25ppg by sheer brute strength and outplaying your guy physically without getting fouled off over and over, then what more does he need to do? Andrew pointed out above, Shaq played against at least 4 Hall of Fame Centers in his prime and still put up those numbers, not to mention everyone knew he'd get it so he'd have to operate in double and triple teams. So, what more was needed to be expanded? If it ain't broke, why fix it?

A1CardsandGaming · Dec 19, 2008

pennysdaman said:
Jimbo i see your point but if you look at Shaq in his Rookie Yr very one demensional!!Pass to Shaq in the paint then Dunk or Layup....
93 94 Was abit better for him was still developing as a young player..
mush the same as 94 95..
The 95 96 he really developed his inside game with the Baby Hook/Spin Move in the Low Post pretty Much unstoppable in is prime, But then saying that Dwight doesnt really have any decent oppisition at his spot..
Back in the day Shaq had the likes of Hakeem, D-Rob, Ewing Alonzo and the likes who does Dwight have to compete against???

In short i dot think he could have expanded his game anymore than he did, well except for his Foul Shooting....
Just my 2Cents

Very well said

It will be interesting to see how Dwight Howard Turns out in the next couple of years because he is so dominant on such a good team...

jimboiitmac · Dec 19, 2008

pennysdaman said:
Jimbo i see your point but if you look at Shaq in his Rookie Yr very one demensional!!Pass to Shaq in the paint then Dunk or Layup....
93 94 Was abit better for him was still developing as a young player..
mush the same as 94 95..
The 95 96 he really developed his inside game with the Baby Hook/Spin Move in the Low Post pretty Much unstoppable in is prime, But then saying that Dwight doesnt really have any decent oppisition at his spot..
Back in the day Shaq had the likes of Hakeem, D-Rob, Ewing Alonzo and the likes who does Dwight have to compete against???

In short i dot think he could have expanded his game anymore than he did, well except for his Foul Shooting....
Just my 2Cents

Yer I think you guys are slightly misunderstanding me. I'm not trying to downplay Shaq's greatness or say Dwight is as good as Shaq was, I'm actually genuinely wondering how Shaq played back in the late 90's because I didn't really watch much ball then, and stats aren't that great indicators to go by (as exemplified through Dwight averaging 20+, 14+ nearly 4 blocks but clearly not nearly being as complete a player as others)..

No mid-range jumper for Shaq but I guess he did add an array of nifty moves as he moved to the Lakers etc..

pennysdaman · Dec 19, 2008

jimboiitmac said:
Yer I think you guys are slightly misunderstanding me. I'm not trying to downplay Shaq's greatness or say Dwight is as good as Shaq was, I'm actually genuinely wondering how Shaq played back in the late 90's because I didn't really watch much ball then, and stats aren't that great indicators to go by (as exemplified through Dwight averaging 20+, 14+ nearly 4 blocks but clearly not nearly being as complete a player as others)..

No mid-range jumper for Shaq but I guess he did add an array of nifty moves as he moved to the Lakers etc..

No misunderstanding you but when the heading is How great is Shaq, Really??
Then show us Dwights Stats??Not sure what other response you were after??

But anyways Shaq was not only great but unstoppable in his prime getting Doubled and Trippled Teamed at times...And then the onnly way to stop him was the Hack-A-Shaq....Thats how great he was!

gtfour · Dec 19, 2008

Shaq is genitically a freak. He was unstoppable back in the day, and is right to be treated as one of the best big men to play the game. His prescence alone helped his teams win. Could of worked on his free throws, and if he actually had a jumper from at least 10 to 15, then you would have had to put him up there next to the Wilts etc, as he would have been able to average in the 30's during his peak years.
Still one of the best to play though.

ozflava · Dec 19, 2008

nenjabin said:
Expand his game? All I am thinking right now is "If it ain't broke, why fix it?". If you can be that successful as to put up 25ppg by sheer brute strength and outplaying your guy physically without getting fouled off over and over, then what more does he need to do? Andrew pointed out above, Shaq played against at least 4 Hall of Fame Centers in his prime and still put up those numbers, not to mention everyone knew he'd get it so he'd have to operate in double and triple teams. So, what more was needed to be expanded? If it ain't broke, why fix it?

Nuff said. When you can make grown men look like boys, why would u do anything else? It took at least 2 to stop him, so all he had to do was kick to a shooter if he couldn't bully his way to the rack. I think unfortunately for Dwight, he hasn't played against similar calibre big men, so his stats and achievements may be down played. He's not as physically strong as Shaq, but he has far greater athleticism then Shaq ever did. Shaq made a lot of his moves look easy.....but when you have a dude literally hanging off you it's not easy to finish those plays or even score.

chadjaja · Dec 19, 2008

As an actor or rapper he makes an even better basketballer!

Matt26 · Dec 19, 2008

I think the thing with Shaq is that he came along at a time when basketball was taking off around the world and the NBA took huge advantage of this.

I mean Shaq was on every billboard in the early 90's.....lots of Reeboks and Pepsi were sold because of him. he got the NBA headlines......all keeping the NBA name in the bright lights.

You had players like Jabbar, Olajuwon, Ewing and Robinson who were great players but didn't have the overall package and image that the NBA could build on.....enter Shaq......a great player and very marketable.....just what the NBA needed.

Shaq was an icon....a presence that was used very well to beat other teams.

Whilst Shaq will go down as one of the most influential players of our time, sure he won rings, MVP's and did what he did well, but I think there are other players I mentioned above that did as well as him, just they did it differently and didn't stand out as much as Shaq did.

I like Shaq and think he was a great player, he will go down as one of the all time greats, but for me there are other centres I would consider more skillful centres than Shaq.

Cheers
Matt

steve-o · Dec 19, 2008

Shaq is a wonderful player and when he retires he will be missed

steve-o · Dec 19, 2008

the reason shaq is so good was his ablity at shooting premiter shots
and his rebounding and shot blocking was very good

jimboiitmac · Dec 19, 2008

ozflava said:
Nuff said. When you can make grown men look like boys, why would u do anything else? It took at least 2 to stop him, so all he had to do was kick to a shooter if he couldn't bully his way to the rack. I think unfortunately for Dwight, he hasn't played against similar calibre big men, so his stats and achievements may be down played. He's not as physically strong as Shaq, but he has far greater athleticism then Shaq ever did. Shaq made a lot of his moves look easy.....but when you have a dude literally hanging off you it's not easy to finish those plays or even score.

Yeah fair call, I basically made this thread because I was wondering, if Dwight puts up similar stats to Shaq and shows dominance like Shaq did - how come it's almost probable to say that he'll probably never get the same type of credit Shaq did.

I guess the main things I got from this thread:

- Shaq had a greater array of moves than Dwight
- Shaq played against tougher opposition
- Shaq was a more complete player than Dwight

ozflava · Dec 19, 2008

chadjaja said:
As an actor or rapper he makes an even better basketballer!

Hey I still own Shaq's first rap album.....and pull it out from time to time! Couple of gay tracks on there (I'm outstanding.....how gay?!?!)......but there is a couple of catchy diddy's on there too. And what about Kazaam????......that was A grade stuff

pennysdaman · Dec 19, 2008

ozflava said:
Hey I still own Shaq's first rap album.....and pull it out from time to time! Couple of gay tracks on there (I'm outstanding.....how gay?!?!)......but there is a couple of catchy diddy's on there too. And what about Kazaam????......that was A grade stuff

Hey you cant forget about Shoot,Pass,Slam or I know i got Skillz!!!
Absolute gold there!!!
How can you forget Blue Chips??

pennysdaman · Dec 19, 2008

Im really sorry but i had to do it!!!

[youtube]qPKTLLb80Ns[/youtube]

And this!!!!

[youtube]r3dMeNPFL8[/youtube]

WoobieZarz · Dec 20, 2008

For someone of that size, I don't think there was much expanding he could do, I mean, there's no dribble moves, although when the big man runs coast to coast, it's always time to break open a bottle of bubbly to celebrate.

But yeah, there wasnt much else that the big diesel could do.

Dwight on the other hand, is more athletic, and more agile, so look for him to be a bit more "flashy".

One thing that always amazes me, is you've got someone that tall, able to stuff it in with ease, and yet they hardly do! Why not go to the big guys more? Why not spend half a dozen trips down the floor going to the big guy, and have him attack the sh!t outta the rim, and either draw fouls, or slam the crap outta those rims???

Can't tell me they can't do it, coaches just don't run the plays!

ozflava · Dec 20, 2008

I smoke the mic like cheech and chong do!!....one of the great lines

How great is Shaq, really?

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