BEWARE => "good_old_bball" !!! HE CHEATED ME !!
- Thread starter Bolli
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Hi All
I have to admit I must have been watching too much of my Star Trek Next Generation Re-runs... and in one particular espisode called Alternate Universe of which present times have changed due to a correction in some parts of the history. For a moment, I must have closed my eyes and dozed off an hour or two....
Date gone back must be sometime in 1997, after the released of the first Michael Jordan autographed jersey numbered to 23 (The 1997/98 version). In my dream, in order to contact the then CEO, Richard McWilliam, all I had to do was just pick up my phone and give him a ring (oh how I wish it was that easy in real life). I congratulated on his new release and how brilliant was the concept of on-card autograph on a jersey card numbered to 23. Richard was just smirking with grin thinking yes I have got this nailed down finally!!! Then after disposing of the intial formalities, I went on straight to the point that I was from the future and starting give him 2 cents worth. Richard's jaws just dropped touching the floor when I told that he is going to lose his NBA licence and that Kobe would jump ship to Panini. Panini did one thing which some people would say is the right thing to do from a hobby perspective is that everyone could afford a Kobe autograph, Panini printed a truck load of Kobe autos, unlike what Upperdeck did with Michael Jordan. Richard being a shrewd businessman of course realised that the more Jordan autos there are in the market, more hobby collectors could have a slice of him and not limited to the rich collectors only. Upperdeck must have produced at least 23000 copies of the 98/99 UD MJ Auto jerseys and another 23000 copies of the chronology timeless memories auto.
I did mentioned that such large production is going to have a positive impact to the hobby scene and that it is going to reduce possibilities of any internet fraud. Richard was amazed to hear that and wanted to understand more. This is where I started talking about how the internet will impact the hobby such as Ebay and Ozcardtrader. I did mentioned that was sudden craze for Michael Jordan's 90s autograph and that the value of some has escalated to obscene values. And the biggest problem to this is that there was a lot of fraud happening in the internet of which members are trying to rip off one another. I told him that this is your one chance of redeeming yourself in the hobby scene and sometimes being a card manufacturer, profit is should not be seen as the only goal.
Going to OzCardTrader specific, I can imagine what such an impact would do to his site. Perhaps, Michael Jordan autograph being mass produced and costing no more than $150, this problem between Bolli and Steve will not escalate to its current levels. Steve may still get into money troubles but at least raising $150 is a much easier task than the current amount of $5k. Members on this site will not tear their hair out of each other for dumbness or for siding either sides. The mods and admin will not busy administering such an issue. The best part of it is that there will still be so many collectors still in the hobby and not put off at the high price of some of the cards produced by Upperdeck. OCT will be hustling and bustling with NBA collectors.
Well, I need to get up at some point but that was sure a good dream to have. Cheers Alex
**DISCLAIMER: This post is only for entertainment purposes and just like to put some sanity back into the hobby**
I have to admit I must have been watching too much of my Star Trek Next Generation Re-runs... and in one particular espisode called Alternate Universe of which present times have changed due to a correction in some parts of the history. For a moment, I must have closed my eyes and dozed off an hour or two....
Date gone back must be sometime in 1997, after the released of the first Michael Jordan autographed jersey numbered to 23 (The 1997/98 version). In my dream, in order to contact the then CEO, Richard McWilliam, all I had to do was just pick up my phone and give him a ring (oh how I wish it was that easy in real life). I congratulated on his new release and how brilliant was the concept of on-card autograph on a jersey card numbered to 23. Richard was just smirking with grin thinking yes I have got this nailed down finally!!! Then after disposing of the intial formalities, I went on straight to the point that I was from the future and starting give him 2 cents worth. Richard's jaws just dropped touching the floor when I told that he is going to lose his NBA licence and that Kobe would jump ship to Panini. Panini did one thing which some people would say is the right thing to do from a hobby perspective is that everyone could afford a Kobe autograph, Panini printed a truck load of Kobe autos, unlike what Upperdeck did with Michael Jordan. Richard being a shrewd businessman of course realised that the more Jordan autos there are in the market, more hobby collectors could have a slice of him and not limited to the rich collectors only. Upperdeck must have produced at least 23000 copies of the 98/99 UD MJ Auto jerseys and another 23000 copies of the chronology timeless memories auto.
I did mentioned that such large production is going to have a positive impact to the hobby scene and that it is going to reduce possibilities of any internet fraud. Richard was amazed to hear that and wanted to understand more. This is where I started talking about how the internet will impact the hobby such as Ebay and Ozcardtrader. I did mentioned that was sudden craze for Michael Jordan's 90s autograph and that the value of some has escalated to obscene values. And the biggest problem to this is that there was a lot of fraud happening in the internet of which members are trying to rip off one another. I told him that this is your one chance of redeeming yourself in the hobby scene and sometimes being a card manufacturer, profit is should not be seen as the only goal.
Going to OzCardTrader specific, I can imagine what such an impact would do to his site. Perhaps, Michael Jordan autograph being mass produced and costing no more than $150, this problem between Bolli and Steve will not escalate to its current levels. Steve may still get into money troubles but at least raising $150 is a much easier task than the current amount of $5k. Members on this site will not tear their hair out of each other for dumbness or for siding either sides. The mods and admin will not busy administering such an issue. The best part of it is that there will still be so many collectors still in the hobby and not put off at the high price of some of the cards produced by Upperdeck. OCT will be hustling and bustling with NBA collectors.
Well, I need to get up at some point but that was sure a good dream to have. Cheers Alex
**DISCLAIMER: This post is only for entertainment purposes and just like to put some sanity back into the hobby**
1. Bolli cancelling the Paypal claim is someting many of us in the same situation would seriously consider doing. At that point he had already lost the card he sent (BV$2000) and half his cash. He knew if he continued with the claim it would probably end there. Instead he cancelled the claim. One last roll of the dice to get the deal completed. A partial Pay[ay refund wasn't anywhere near the full value of deal.
2. Several posts have mention ebay having $600 BIN for the card Steve recieved in lieu of $2000BV. Obviously Steves fault for not researching the card first. But I suspect its a big part of the issue. Perhaps Steve wanted to swap the colateral card?
3. Swapping the collateral is still the best option IMO. People have suggested selling some PMG, but that would seriously hurt him. But he could give a large amount of PMG to Cherry and then Cherry forwards the Jordan card to Bolli. Then Bolli is happy. Steve hasnt lost his PMG and G is still in same situation owed money but with valuable cards as collateral. Steve then pays G and gets his PMG back asap.
Its not our business, but we dont know how much Cherry is owed and what work arounds are possible.
I hope it gets sorted to everyones satisfaction in a timely manner.
2. Several posts have mention ebay having $600 BIN for the card Steve recieved in lieu of $2000BV. Obviously Steves fault for not researching the card first. But I suspect its a big part of the issue. Perhaps Steve wanted to swap the colateral card?
3. Swapping the collateral is still the best option IMO. People have suggested selling some PMG, but that would seriously hurt him. But he could give a large amount of PMG to Cherry and then Cherry forwards the Jordan card to Bolli. Then Bolli is happy. Steve hasnt lost his PMG and G is still in same situation owed money but with valuable cards as collateral. Steve then pays G and gets his PMG back asap.
Its not our business, but we dont know how much Cherry is owed and what work arounds are possible.
I hope it gets sorted to everyones satisfaction in a timely manner.
DGCollectables
https://www.dgcollectables.com.au/
I still see this a long way off for being resolved so that all parties walk away feeling justice has been served. This thread should be a sticky until Bolli has got all his money and cards back and the offending member is banned from this forum for life. Criminal prosecution would be a bonus.
A1CardsandGaming
@ A1, we love collecting as much as you do !
That's a bit harsh. If it gets sorted out then I don't see how the situation warrants a life ban.
Not trying to start anything with you Terry but put yourself in Bolli's situation......you and I would BOTH be screaming blue murder and a life ban would not be enough! I doubt this will get sorted in the near future let alone at all, so a life ban may well be in order IMHO.
A1CardsandGaming
@ A1, we love collecting as much as you do !
I hear you loud and clear but one thing I have learnt since being online is that it changes perception on things 
As for what I would do in the same situation, I would never put myself in this situation. To me, selling high end stuff to someone from the other side of the country or world is just too risky and if I was not covered for the worst case scenario then I would not do the deal at all. Always wanted a MJ fleer rc. could have bought plenty online but waited til one popped up locally. I even owned a MJ exquisite auto #d/10 ..... also picked that up locally
at the end of the day, I have only ever purchased stuff online with money that I could afford to lose if things went pear shaped (always hoped for the best)As for a life long ban, Doing bad deals no matter how big or small should cop the same treatment. Not just because it was huge amount of money because the principal is exactly the same !
DGCollectables
https://www.dgcollectables.com.au/
It definitely deserves a life ban. People have been banned from this site for lesser evils.
To sum up this whole debacle, Didier Drogba said it best:
To sum up this whole debacle, Didier Drogba said it best:
As for what I would do in the same situation, I would never put myself in this situation. To me, selling high end stuff to someone from the other side of the country or world is just too risky and if I was not covered for the worst case scenario then I would not do the deal at all. Always wanted a MJ fleer rc. could have bought plenty online but waited til one popped up locally. I even owned a MJ exquisite auto #d/10 ..... also picked that up locally
As for a life long ban, Doing bad deals no matter how big or small should cop the same treatment. Not just because it was huge amount of money because the principal is exactly the same !
I'm like you......no way i'd send that much accross the other side of the country let alone the other side of the world!
@ooneil: yes, I sent him a mail if the informations of Steve are correct but I still have no answer from Cherry
I know he has been unwittingly drawn into this but I find it a little disappointing that Cherry has not let Bolli know where he is up to with Steve.
lilreddevil
KD35
Today I got a mail from Cherry/"G" => "yes, he has" ! Short but OK
Was that, yes he has contacted me? Or yes he has repaid his debt and got the card back?
Today I got a mail from Cherry/"G" => "yes, he has" ! Short but OK
Its nice to see some smiley on you.
AyiosYiorgos
Card Addict
IMHO he will need to be banned for life as the integrity of the site will be questioned, its thanks but no thanks Steve, no one is bigger than the site, the damage that has been done is huge, nothing but expulsion for life......
A_Iverson_I
OzCardTrader
From what I understand of the issue is that Bolli didn't say the card was WORTH $2000; basically the one that sold for $600 had a bad auto and it seems that bad autos in this set are very common and that Bolli's card has actually got a very good auto. Top top that off I believe Bolli said to Steve that he didn't really want to part with that card but if he did he wanted $2000 TV for it. So no, Bolli never said it was worth $2k, he just said he wanted $2k in TV to part with. Two very different things if it's true, so not sure why Steve kept asking about it's worth!?
Honestly, not sure if a ban is in order,
Bolli brought to our attention something that happened that hit the very nerve that everyone is afraid of, that you would be able to trade or buy that one big card and things didn't go as planned. It brought out some pure emotion on everyone's part for or against Steve as much as for and against making a high dollar trade like this, all justified. I feel Steve doesn't owe me any explanation, he just needs to make it right, if its not done rather SOON, then the proper authorities should be left to handle it. It is well documented now, emails, posts and such from everyone involved in the transaction, or lack of one.
Being that there was not a trade deal in place on any board, I cant see how its in the best interest of any board to ban anyone. They could have had a deal on facebook, tweeter, over the phone, email. The board itself is a great media to help keep things in order, but as for trading, if you chose not to use it, your on your own. The board does not have a reason to ban someone if there wasn't any trade thread. Steve will cop enough from future trades from people who will not trust him. However, the mods can rule that sense its in the best interest of the trading community that if Steve wishes to use the boards for future trades, that he sends first. Again, this is my opinion and I am sure I will cop abuse from someone over it, so be it!
Bolli brought to our attention something that happened that hit the very nerve that everyone is afraid of, that you would be able to trade or buy that one big card and things didn't go as planned. It brought out some pure emotion on everyone's part for or against Steve as much as for and against making a high dollar trade like this, all justified. I feel Steve doesn't owe me any explanation, he just needs to make it right, if its not done rather SOON, then the proper authorities should be left to handle it. It is well documented now, emails, posts and such from everyone involved in the transaction, or lack of one.
Being that there was not a trade deal in place on any board, I cant see how its in the best interest of any board to ban anyone. They could have had a deal on facebook, tweeter, over the phone, email. The board itself is a great media to help keep things in order, but as for trading, if you chose not to use it, your on your own. The board does not have a reason to ban someone if there wasn't any trade thread. Steve will cop enough from future trades from people who will not trust him. However, the mods can rule that sense its in the best interest of the trading community that if Steve wishes to use the boards for future trades, that he sends first. Again, this is my opinion and I am sure I will cop abuse from someone over it, so be it!
A_Iverson_I
OzCardTrader
Mike.... I don't think it matters if the deal was done on here or not. I think OCT has shown in the past they don't care where a dodgy member "does their business", but if they are dodgy then they are not welcome here. So it doesn't matter if the deal was done on here, SCF, HK, ebay, craigslist or a card show...... the same events happened.
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