GarnettFan4Life
Administrator
Chris Bosh = 10 + 18 + 7 + 0 + 16 + 9 = 60. oh well. yep it was right
Basketball Hall of Fame Debate
- Thread starter GarnettFan4Life
- Start date
WoobieZarz
OzCardTrader
Based on that system, Dirk Nowitzki gets just 69. Certainly not enough to "warrant" the selection, but I can guarantee he'll be entering that HOF!
15 + 20 + 6 + 0 + 20 + 3 + 5 = 69
Steve Nash - Yes - Most achieved player to never win a championship??
Vince Carter - No
Yao Ming - No
Tracy McGrady - No
Derek Fisher - No
Ray Allen - No
Chris Webber - No
Bill Laimbeer - No
Jermaine O'Neal - No
Chauncey Billups - No
Pau Gasol - No
Grant Hill - No
Stephon Marbury - No
Ben Wallace - Yes - Champion, All-Star and one of the best defenders this game's ever seen
Chris Bosh - No - Sure, the 20k points and 10k rebounds would help, but he's not going to get there. - 4yrs might get him the points, but he's going to need around 8yrs for those rebounds to rack up.
15 + 20 + 6 + 0 + 20 + 3 + 5 = 69
Steve Nash - Yes - Most achieved player to never win a championship??
Vince Carter - No
Yao Ming - No
Tracy McGrady - No
Derek Fisher - No
Ray Allen - No
Chris Webber - No
Bill Laimbeer - No
Jermaine O'Neal - No
Chauncey Billups - No
Pau Gasol - No
Grant Hill - No
Stephon Marbury - No
Ben Wallace - Yes - Champion, All-Star and one of the best defenders this game's ever seen
Chris Bosh - No - Sure, the 20k points and 10k rebounds would help, but he's not going to get there. - 4yrs might get him the points, but he's going to need around 8yrs for those rebounds to rack up.
GarnettFan4Life
Administrator
69 is enough for sure!
No Ray Allen?
No Ray Allen?
dvl_402
OzCardTrader
how about pierce and iverson? they should both make it
drobfan8
OzCardTrader
I'm going to have to disagree with a few of these.
VC = yes, easily
Webber = yes, was a part of a team that changed College basketball, plus has the accolades to back it up.
Laimbeer = yes, anybody that's such a huge part of a team that got through the Cs and the Lakers will go in the hall.
B. Wallace = YES!!!! He was a defensive beast.
drobfan8
OzCardTrader
Great topic for discussion.
I think it's fine the way it is. There is a process in place and it works well.
Does Richmond deserve to go through? The stats say yes. He was on a losing team for so long though, but he was such a great shooter. At the end of the day, he beat out somebody to become a finalist. The other candidates must not have stacked up.
Maybe they need to hurry the system a little, I mean Shaq and a few others like Iverson and VC should be in soon. We're about to see TD, KG, PP and Kobe retire, they're all next in line.
I think it's fine the way it is. There is a process in place and it works well.
Does Richmond deserve to go through? The stats say yes. He was on a losing team for so long though, but he was such a great shooter. At the end of the day, he beat out somebody to become a finalist. The other candidates must not have stacked up.
Maybe they need to hurry the system a little, I mean Shaq and a few others like Iverson and VC should be in soon. We're about to see TD, KG, PP and Kobe retire, they're all next in line.
drobfan8
OzCardTrader
GarnettFan4Life
Administrator
My point for bringing it up was the process was not working well I think they're putting too many people in. I know it's a fine line but are you happy with 1000 people in there instead making it tougher and only taking a fifth of those?
I think they need to cut back, even take some people out
It's a Hall of Fame, you should have done something extraordinary, something that changed the game. Vince Carter revolutionised dunking but then will have also scored plenty of points, been a multiple time All Star etc etc.I dunno, when I think wow Hall of Fame!!! Mitch Richmond doesn't come to mind.... Bill Russell does. Jordan. Shaq. The All Timers. I think the Hall is too watered down.
Verse1
No Glove, No love.
What are your thoughts on the Glove? I did the numbers and he got a 60. Saying that the rating system you linked above doesn't take into account things like all-nba all-defensive teams etc. but I'm assuming these all play a part in the decision?My point for bringing it up was the process was not working well I think they're putting too many people in. I know it's a fine line but are you happy with 1000 people in there instead making it tougher and only taking a fifth of those?
I think they need to cut back, even take some people out
I dunno, when I think wow Hall of Fame!!! Mitch Richmond doesn't come to mind.... Bill Russell does. Jordan. Shaq. The All Timers. I think the Hall is too watered down.
drobfan8
OzCardTrader
My point for bringing it up was the process was not working well I think they're putting too many people in. I know it's a fine line but are you happy with 1000 people in there instead making it tougher and only taking a fifth of those?
I think they need to cut back, even take some people out
I dunno, when I think wow Hall of Fame!!! Mitch Richmond doesn't come to mind.... Bill Russell does. Jordan. Shaq. The All Timers. I think the Hall is too watered down.
Richmond was in the all nba team quite frequently. Sure he wasn't the greatest ever, but he was a part of run tmc. If you had a list of guys, sure, but saying one guy that you don't think should be in there doesn't mean it's time to change the system. Didn't he also play for the USA?
I know what you're getting at, but it's not as if they're letting in scrub guys. All NBA, multiple all star appearances and team USA is kind of a big deal. Richmond probably came at a good time though, another 5 year's and he may not be a finalist.
GarnettFan4Life
Administrator
I think they'd be factored in by an actual HOF panel member for sure and if they weren't then then that's a flaw in the system! A perfect reason for wanting more transparency to the process. I think it'd be interesting to know.
Only using the above system because it's something I seen. Short of making my own system or adding to that one it's the best I can see so far.
Payton in for sure. Points, steals, 9 all stars, 9 all defensive teams? Insane.
http://stats.nba.com/playerProfile.html?PlayerID=56
dvl_402
OzCardTrader
Speaking of TMC, tim hardaway was a finalist, but did not make the final cut. Selection process might be working well. Besides, basketball has expanded exponentially, expect more players to make HOF (i.e. top x% of all players)
GarnettFan4Life
Administrator
Pierce - if you're not going to put someone in with 30000 points, 10 all stars, NBA champ in then I don't know who should!
Iverson - lock. Once in a lifetime type player.
WoobieZarz
OzCardTrader
But in times when the NBA was short of "standout" players, they're bound to make All NBA lists.
Mitch Richmond for me = yes.
Honestly, these guys are All-Stars, nothing more. Perhaps Allen, Laimbeer & Billups.
Vince Carter - ROY & 8x All-Star
Yao Ming - 8x All-Star as voted in by the country with the worlds highest population
Tracy McGrady - 2x Scoring Champ, 7x All-Star
Derek Fisher - 5x Champion, that's it. Ron Harper and Steve Kerr also have 5 rings...
Ray Allen - Maybe could have been a yes. 2x Champion, 10x All-Star and all-time 3pt leader
Chris Webber - ROY and 5x All-Star
Bill Laimbeer - Rebound Champ (had NOTHING else that year), 2x Champion & 4x All-Star
Jermaine O'Neal - Err, NOPE.
Chauncey Billups - Champion, Finals MVP & 5x All-Star
Pau Gasol - ROY, 2x Champion, 4x All-Star
Grant Hill - Same as Vince basically. ROY & 7x All-Star
Stephon Marbury - Pfft! It's like saying Steve Francis will be HOF
(if it matters, Steph was a 2x All-Star - Heck, if if Steph makes it, Vin Baker's a shoe in!!!)
Mitch Richmond for me = yes.
Honestly, these guys are All-Stars, nothing more. Perhaps Allen, Laimbeer & Billups.
Vince Carter - ROY & 8x All-Star
Yao Ming - 8x All-Star as voted in by the country with the worlds highest population
Tracy McGrady - 2x Scoring Champ, 7x All-Star
Derek Fisher - 5x Champion, that's it. Ron Harper and Steve Kerr also have 5 rings...
Ray Allen - Maybe could have been a yes. 2x Champion, 10x All-Star and all-time 3pt leader
Chris Webber - ROY and 5x All-Star
Bill Laimbeer - Rebound Champ (had NOTHING else that year), 2x Champion & 4x All-Star
Jermaine O'Neal - Err, NOPE.
Chauncey Billups - Champion, Finals MVP & 5x All-Star
Pau Gasol - ROY, 2x Champion, 4x All-Star
Grant Hill - Same as Vince basically. ROY & 7x All-Star
Stephon Marbury - Pfft! It's like saying Steve Francis will be HOF
(if it matters, Steph was a 2x All-Star - Heck, if if Steph makes it, Vin Baker's a shoe in!!!)
drobfan8
OzCardTrader
Nobody is arguing J. O'Neal, Marbury and Fisher, so delete those guys from your argument.
You say MAYBE TO RAY RAY??? WOW.
100% IN
VC
Yao (the guy brought a billion extra NBA fans with him, this is exactly the reason the NBA is growing outside of the US)
Ray Allen any day of the week
Pau
Not first ballot but should get in eventually:
Webber
Billups
Hill
50/50 they get in
Mcgrady
Laimbeer
0% chance:
O'Neal and Marbury
GarnettFan4Life
Administrator
Standard of people inducted should be raised with the overall level of basketball do you think?
Let's look at the info they have there for 1993 Inductee Calvin Murphy :
NBA All-Star (1979)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1971)
J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award (1979)
2× Consensus NCAA All-American First Team (1969–1970)
Consensus NCAA All-American Second Team (1968)
Further info from nba.com
18000 career points, 2100 rebounds, 4400 assists and 1100 steals over 1000 games for career averages 18pts 2reb 4.5ast
This guy was a PG but comparing to Vince Carter for example VC will end up with WAY more on his resume as well as influencing a generation of dunkers. So in 1993, looking back, was Calvin Murphy worthy? They obviously thought so. Maybe in combination with the 2 NCAA All Americans?
I would have him taken out. Harsh, but in the new world of MY Hall of Fame, he don't cut it.
Let's look at the info they have there for 1993 Inductee Calvin Murphy :
NBA All-Star (1979)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1971)
J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award (1979)
2× Consensus NCAA All-American First Team (1969–1970)
Consensus NCAA All-American Second Team (1968)
Further info from nba.com
18000 career points, 2100 rebounds, 4400 assists and 1100 steals over 1000 games for career averages 18pts 2reb 4.5ast
This guy was a PG but comparing to Vince Carter for example VC will end up with WAY more on his resume as well as influencing a generation of dunkers. So in 1993, looking back, was Calvin Murphy worthy? They obviously thought so. Maybe in combination with the 2 NCAA All Americans?
I would have him taken out. Harsh, but in the new world of MY Hall of Fame, he don't cut it.
GarnettFan4Life
Administrator
I hope noone is getting too offended or upset over the back and forth here! All in good fun and for the sake of talking about bball in the slowwww offseason 
GarnettFan4Life
Administrator
I can kind of tell with some of the votes but maybe I should have made them publicly visible.... 
WoobieZarz
OzCardTrader
I guess that's where opinions differ bud. I mean Yao brought a billion fans and a few million bucks worth of revenue to the game, so that's an automatic in??
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