The Greatest Now - Lebron or Kobe?

[jimboiitmac]

Just spent the last 30 minutes reading this article off ESPN.com/nba

The State of the Great Debate: Kobe vs. LeBron 2009 - TrueHoop By Henry Abbott - ESPN

And I thought I'd put it to the test here with a poll of course.

Who is better, Kobe Bryant or Lebron James?

I'm not asking who is the better player, who is the better teammate, who is the better leader, who is the better scorer, who is greater etc - all these questions are being combined into one sole question - Kobe Bryant or Lebron James?

Take any opinion or stance with this that you wish, and be sure to leave your opinion.

Here are a couple of points that I gathered from reading the article, as well as personal ones:

- Statistically Lebron James destroys any player on the planet. He's pretty close to beating MJ in PER (ESPN's player efficiency rating) and whilst Kobe is great statistically I don't think he'll ever be able to do Lebron's 30-8-8 for an entire season.

- Kobe has 3 rings and 5 Finals appearances, Lebron only has 1 of the latter. Although if you take Shaquille O'Neal out of Kobe's teams, does he lead the team to those same championships? Back then Kobe was arguably second fiddle to Shaquille, that's why Shaq won all 3 Finals MVP's.

- Kobe is a much more refined player than Lebron, he has the entire game, post-up, mid-range, perimeter, driving, slashing, passing, defense

- Lebron is probably the most unique and talented blend of strength, quickness and athleticism that the NBA has ever seen, think Michael Jordan but 20-30 pounds stronger and 2 inches taller.

- Kobe has that killer instinct. A few of the analysts say Lebron doesn't have that yet. If you had the last shot do you want Kobe or Bron shooting it?

- Both are capable of being the scoring leaders if they need, Kobe averaged over 30 ppg at least 3 seasons, averaging a career high 35.4 a few seasons back.

- Lebron is a better playmaker than Kobe, but is he as ruthless? Kobe is the closest thing to MJ we have seen, Lebron is more like a blend of MJ and Magic Johnson, he is a true point-forward, Kobe is a true shooting guard.

- Lebron is currently 24 and has been blitzing the league for around 28-7-7 since he was 20 years old, being in the league for 5 years. It took Kobe 3 years to surpass a 20 ppg average for a whole season.

- Lebron seems to be moulding his game around Kobe's, this years new defensive tenacity and perimeter shooting he took from Kobe after spending the Summer Olympics 2008 with him.

- Kobe's game is fundamentally complete. Lebron has flaws with footwork, working off screens, mid-range scoring and post-ups.

 

[jinrai]

Neither but if I had to choose, Kobe

 

[gemini0928]

Hehehe... First to vote for you know who!

 

[ozballer23]

Both may have mvp awards next to their names, but how many rings does LeBron have?

 

[needforspeed]

You already gave the answer to the million dollar question in one of your notes as to who the better overall player is;

"Kobe is the closest thing to MJ we have seen"

Michael Jordan is in a class of his own, and then all the other historic greats in my opinion would fall into a second class, such as Larry Bird, Magic, Dr.J, Gervin.
And this 'second class' is somewhat where LeBron James stands at the moment. And I think it's fair to say that Kobe Bryant is in some sense the same unique class of Michael Jordan.

The only positive note in regards to LeBron James is the fact that he hasn't been around for as long as Kobe. So to judge more accurately, we will have to wait until Kobe retires and then wait an additional 5-6 years after the retirement so LeBron catches up on the same number of seasons that Kobe played until he can really be judged against the great Kobe Bryant (since Kobe already has 5-6 years ontop of LeBron).

Kobe all the way, enough said.

 

[midnight_show]

Both may have mvp awards next to their names, but how many rings does LeBron have?

That is such an effing stupid argument. For a start, Kobe has been in the league for 13 years, Lebron has been in the league five years. Secondly, If we go purely off who has won championship rings, that means Mark Madsen of LA (remember him, the goofy white guy who cant dance) is a better player than Lebron. As was Jud Bueschler, professionally bench warming chicagos three rings in the mid nineties.

Kobe had one of the most dominant big men ever to have played the game to carry him through and get the three rings. How many rings has Kobe won without Shaq next to him?? What happened when Shaq went to Miami?? Did Kobe take LA to the finals and win the championship ring?? Or did Shaq lead the Heat to the championship.

Kobe still hasnt proved he can win it without Shaq, this might be his big year to do so, it might not. Cant see anyone beating the cavs though.

 

[chaz]

king james for me.

 

[ozballer23]

That is such an effing stupid argument. For a start, Kobe has been in the league for 13 years, Lebron has been in the league five years. Secondly, If we go purely off who has won championship rings, that means Mark Madsen of LA (remember him, the goofy white guy who cant dance) is a better player than Lebron. As was Jud Bueschler, professionally bench warming chicagos three rings in the mid nineties.

Kobe had one of the most dominant big men ever to have played the game to carry him through and get the three rings. How many rings has Kobe won without Shaq next to him?? What happened when Shaq went to Miami?? Did Kobe take LA to the finals and win the championship ring?? Or did Shaq lead the Heat to the championship.

Kobe still hasnt proved he can win it without Shaq, this might be his big year to do so, it might not. Cant see anyone beating the cavs though.

Who made you an expert? My point is you can't compare the two since one has been playing for longer than the other, in 10 years when lebron has played the same amount as kobe, then compare, till then, the reason they play is to win championships, and if you think there is any other reason, you're the stupid one. Kobe has three, lebron has nonbe. Period.

 

[*Oz]

That is such an effing stupid argument. For a start, Kobe has been in the league for 13 years, Lebron has been in the league five years. Secondly, If we go purely off who has won championship rings, that means Mark Madsen of LA (remember him, the goofy white guy who cant dance) is a better player than Lebron. As was Jud Bueschler, professionally bench warming chicagos three rings in the mid nineties.

Kobe had one of the most dominant big men ever to have played the game to carry him through and get the three rings. How many rings has Kobe won without Shaq next to him?? What happened when Shaq went to Miami?? Did Kobe take LA to the finals and win the championship ring?? Or did Shaq lead the Heat to the championship.

Kobe still hasnt proved he can win it without Shaq, this might be his big year to do so, it might not. Cant see anyone beating the cavs though.

These arguments are pointless. When was the last time any championship was won without a starting 5? Obviously Shaq went to Miami and got one, but did he do it without Wade? That whole team came together and got it done but you take Wade out and there's no Championship, you could argue the same for Shaq. Take either Shaq or Kobe out and there's no Championships in the early run of this decade. This whole Shaq wins without, Kobe can't win without Shaq isn't the way to measure success because we could argue the same point for any Championship series...

Needforspeed said it best and to add to that, there's just no point comparing them unless you want to find out who would win a game of 21 right now.

 

[ozballer23]

These arguments are pointless. When was the last time any championship was won without a starting 5? Obviously Shaq went to Miami and got one, but did he do it without Wade? That whole team came together and got it done but you take Wade out and there's no Championship, you could argue the same for Shaq. Take either Shaq or Kobe out and there's no Championships in the early run of this decade. This whole Shaq wins without, Kobe can't win without Shaq isn't the way to measure success because we could argue the same point for any Championship series...

Needforspeed said it best and to add to that, there's just no point comparing them unless you want to find out who would win a game of 21 right now.

Exactly. No poin about all these "what if's". The facts remain the same. Base your arguemnts on those instead of you're what if theories or if "lebron had a big man like kobe"

 

[jimboiitmac]

These arguments are pointless. When was the last time any championship was won without a starting 5? Obviously Shaq went to Miami and got one, but did he do it without Wade? That whole team came together and got it done but you take Wade out and there's no Championship, you could argue the same for Shaq. Take either Shaq or Kobe out and there's no Championships in the early run of this decade. This whole Shaq wins without, Kobe can't win without Shaq isn't the way to measure success because we could argue the same point for any Championship series...

Needforspeed said it best and to add to that, there's just no point comparing them unless you want to find out who would win a game of 21 right now.

Well the point in comparing them now is, they are both on the top of their games right now in this era.

Sure some would argue Lebron can still improve but I'd say he's come out of the gates pretty dominantly and while he can still get better this is near the top.

They are the two icons of basketball right now, the two best, it's like Magic and Larry Bird or Michael and.. (well there's nobody really comparable to Michael in the 90's) but you get the point.

We could wait till Lebron has played 13 seasons but then we'd be comparing players from different era's, right now they are both playing unlike anyone else in the world and that is why we compare them.

It is a shame they weren't from the same class or there abouts like Lebron, Wade and Carmelo but why should we wait for Lebron to have played the same amount of seasons before we compare them?

If we are to do that by the time Lebron has played 12 seasons we'll likely be comparing someone else to Lebron and Lebron will be in Kobe's shoes right now.

 

[*Oz]

Well the point in comparing them now is, they are both on the top of their games right now in this era.

Sure some would argue Lebron can still improve but I'd say he's come out of the gates pretty dominantly and while he can still get better this is near the top.

They are the two icons of basketball right now, the two best, it's like Magic and Larry Bird or Michael and.. (well there's nobody really comparable to Michael in the 90's) but you get the point.

We could wait till Lebron has played 13 seasons but then we'd be comparing players from different era's, right now they are both playing unlike anyone else in the world and that is why we compare them.

It is a shame they weren't from the same class or there abouts like Lebron, Wade and Carmelo but why should we wait for Lebron to have played the same amount of seasons before we compare them?

If we are to do that by the time Lebron has played 12 seasons we'll likely be comparing someone else to Lebron and Lebron will be in Kobe's shoes right now.

So basically you want to know who would win a game of 21 right now?

 

[ozballer23]

Well the point in comparing them now is, they are both on the top of their games right now in this era.

Sure some would argue Lebron can still improve but I'd say he's come out of the gates pretty dominantly and while he can still get better this is near the top.

They are the two icons of basketball right now, the two best, it's like Magic and Larry Bird or Michael and.. (well there's nobody really comparable to Michael in the 90's) but you get the point.

We could wait till Lebron has played 13 seasons but then we'd be comparing players from different era's, right now they are both playing unlike anyone else in the world and that is why we compare them.

It is a shame they weren't from the same class or there abouts like Lebron, Wade and Carmelo but why should we wait for Lebron to have played the same amount of seasons before we compare them?

If we are to do that by the time Lebron has played 12 seasons we'll likely be comparing someone else to Lebron and Lebron will be in Kobe's shoes right now.

Sorry to say jimbo, there is no way you will know when a player is on top of their game, or have no more room for improvement until their career is over with. How do you know that Lebron cannot improve anymore? Unless you have a crytal ball, there is no way of telling, he may be good now, but still can get better.

 

[needforspeed]

If I can add one more thing regarding the whole 'Kobe can't win rings without Shaquille beside him,' Did we already forget that Kobe and the Lakers were a whisker from winning last years NBA Finals Championship?

Black Mamba also says it all describing Kobe, DEADLY, QUICK, and FEARED.

Thanks to all for the opportunity to voice my opinion and thoughts.

P.S. *Oz, I appreciate your last sentence complimentary comments too.

 

[midnight_show]

Who made you an expert? My point is you can't compare the two since one has been playing for longer than the other, in 10 years when lebron has played the same amount as kobe, then compare, till then, the reason they play is to win championships, and if you think there is any other reason, you're the stupid one. Kobe has three, lebron has nonbe. Period.

Of course the reason people play is to win championships. Your original post said while they have both won MVP's, Kobe has more rings than Lebron, insinuating Kobe is the better player. But do you measure your entire career success on championships?? As a team, yes, but there is still individual success and accolades. Im sick of hearing the Kobe is better cos he won more rings argument that gets trotted out every time there is a debate about these two players.

Is Nathan Ablett better than his father cos hes won a Premiership and His Dad didnt??

I know how futile the "kobe cant win without shaq" argument is. But the fact is, He hasnt won one without Shaq in the middle. Seems every championship team needs a MINIMUM of two All Stars in the starting line up.

IM NO EXPERT AND I NEVER CLAIMED TO BE. PLUS, I never claimed to NOT be stupid. But in my opinion, Lebron is more complete. And more fun to watch.

 

[ozballer23]

Of course the reason people play is to win championships. Your original post said while they have both won MVP's, Kobe has more rings than Lebron, insinuating Kobe is the better player. But do you measure your entire career success on championships?? As a team, yes, but there is still individual success and accolades. Im sick of hearing the Kobe is better cos he won more rings argument that gets trotted out every time there is a debate about these two players.

Is Nathan Ablett better than his father cos hes won a Premiership and His Dad didnt??

I know how futile the "kobe cant win without shaq" argument is. But the fact is, He hasnt won one without Shaq in the middle. Seems every championship team needs a MINIMUM of two All Stars in the starting line up.

IM NO EXPERT AND I NEVER CLAIMED TO BE. PLUS, I never claimed to NOT be stupid. But in my opinion, Lebron is more complete. And more fun to watch.

Exactly. It's a team game isn't it? On the note of individual accolades, not that I care about either player that much, but kobe has has several more individual awards than Lebron. Anyway you look at it, you just can't compare the 2 at the moment. Both are at different point of their careers. When both are retired, then you can get a more fair comparison.

 

[midnight_show]

If I can add one more thing regarding the whole 'Kobe can't win rings without Shaquille beside him,' Did we already forget that Kobe and the Lakers were a whisker from winning last years NBA Finals Championship?
Black Mamba also says it all describing Kobe, DEADLY, QUICK, and FEARED.

Thanks to all for the opportunity to voice my opinion and thoughts.

P.S. *Oz, I appreciate your last sentence complimentary comments too.

You dont get a ring for "coming within a whisker". You get nothing.

 

[jimboiitmac]

Sorry to say jimbo, there is no way you will know when a player is on top of their game, or have no more room for improvement until their career is over with. How do you know that Lebron cannot improve anymore? Unless you have a crytal ball, there is no way of telling, he may be good now, but still can get better.

You gotta read my posts properly mate. I deliberately said Lebron is NEAR where I believe he will be playing his best, Kobe obviously isn't at his BEST right now either but both are pretty damn close to it.

Of course you can never say when a player is at the upmost peak but that shouldn't stop us from analysing players.

 

[ozballer23]

You gotta read my posts properly mate. I deliberately said Lebron is NEAR where I believe he will be playing his best, Kobe obviously isn't at his BEST right now either but both are pretty damn close to it.

Of course you can never say when a player is at the upmost peak but that shouldn't stop us from analysing players.

even if you said NEAR, you would have to have seen his peak to know if he is NEAR it... right? my point exact

 

[gemini0928]

Lebron for me. But Kobe comes very, very close...

I like both of them. Maybe if Kobe had stayed away from that girl who accused him of something bad, My vote will go with Kobe first then Lebron.

Anyway, both are great players...