ooneil
OzCardTrader
Face facts. Your just a hater mate.
The next Immortal- You Nomination and Why
- Thread starter steven1959
- Start date
footypugs2011
OzCardTrader
Agreed 100%. I'll also back freddy fittler but what's the beat meninga gets it.
Brett.
Banned User
Who me ???
Brett.
Banned User
Who me ???
thenamesgould
OzCardTrader
Toovey was a courageous defender, but you would never have him defending around the centre of the field tackling props all day.
Well, the NSW coaching staff didn't, anyway. Take your complaints to them.
The Mad Hatter
OzCardTrader
If anyone deserves Immortal status it's Luke Stewart.
Signed with Souths in 2001 for 2002. Played there until 2011. Played one finals match. Collected a couple of spoons, and close enough spoons. Slogged his guts out for Souths through thick and thin, never grumbled when they paid overs for Adam MacDougall or Roy Asotasi and was paid a pittance, yet never wavered. A true gentleman. God bless Luke Stewart!!!
That's who I'd pick. But I'm biased as.
Signed with Souths in 2001 for 2002. Played there until 2011. Played one finals match. Collected a couple of spoons, and close enough spoons. Slogged his guts out for Souths through thick and thin, never grumbled when they paid overs for Adam MacDougall or Roy Asotasi and was paid a pittance, yet never wavered. A true gentleman. God bless Luke Stewart!!!
That's who I'd pick. But I'm biased as.
steven1959
OzCardTrader
THE PANEL: An eighth member is due to be inducted at the Men of League Gala Dinner the week of the 2012 NRL Grand Final. There will be 13 judges who will deliberate over candidates. The judges are: Wayne Bennett (seven-time premiership winning coach), Ray Warren (commentary guru), John Grant (Chairman ARL Commission), David Middleton (leading rugby league historian), Ray Hadley (radio and television commentator), Phil Rothfield (News Limited), Roy Masters (Fairfax Media), Geoff Prenter (RLW Founding Editor 1970-81), Ian Heads (RLW Editor 1981-87), Norman Tasker (RLW Editor 1988-2000), Tony Durkin (RLW Editor 2001-02), Martin Lenehan (RLW Editor 2003-11) and Mitchell Dale (current RLW Editor).
AyiosYiorgos
Card Addict
- Messages
- 5,069
- Location
- Sydney, NSW, Australia
- Real Name
- Michael
- eBay User
- st.george4life / TradingCardFactory
An historic meeting in Sydney on Wednesday of some of the game's top powerbrokers will decide rugby league's eighth Immortal.
The debate among the 18-member voting panel will resurrect some of the game's old arguments - forwards versus backs; NSW versus Queensland; players of the past versus recently retired ones; good citizens versus bad boys.
The three candidates most prominent in discussions leading to the honour, pioneered by Rugby League Week, are St George premiership-winning captain/coach Norm Provan; Canberra, Queensland and Kangaroo captain Mal Meninga and Newcastle, NSW and Australian halfback, Andrew ''Joey'' Johns. All are members of rugby league's Team of the Century.
The five living Immortals - John Raper, Reg Gasnier, Bob Fulton, Graeme Langlands and Wally Lewis - will vote for the first time. ARLC chairman John Grant, seven-time premiership-winning coach Wayne Bennett, past RLW editors, commentators Ray Warren and Ray Hadley, and historian David Middleton will vote.
Indications are the three St George Immortals - Raper, Gasnier and Langlands - will support Provan, who won 10 grand finals with the Dragons. Some believe Provan should have been anointed in 1981 when a panel of former St George player and coach Harry Bath, Sydney Morning Herald journalist Tom Goodman and commentator Frank Hyde decided the original four - South Sydney's legendary fullback Clive Churchill, Raper, Gasnier and Fulton.
Fulton has always, graciously, declared Langlands should have been inducted ahead of him. Langlands was added in 1999, along with Lewis. The late Arthur Beetson became the seventh Immortal in 2003.
The argument against Provan being included is that if his record, including international games played, was so compelling, then he should have gone in 31 years ago. Some will say Langlands was added retrospectively but he played on for another decade after Provan hung up his boots. The same argument applies to Meninga. If he was to be an Immortal, he should have been included at the same time as Lewis, his teammate in so many Queensland State of Origin victories.
Again, some will say Beetson, the Maroons captain in the inaugural Origin match in 1980, was added retrospectively, more than 20 years after he retired. They will argue Meninga was leading the Kangaroos to Ashes-winning victories less than two decades ago. Meninga recently said he considered being a member of the Team of the Century a greater honour than being the eighth Immortal.
I was a member of the voting panel for the Team of the Century when about 30 of us sat down at The Rocks to discuss it on the eve of the code's 100-year birthday party. It was very clear to me the Queensland contingent voted as a bloc.
Fulton and Langlands, who were named as reserves in the Team of the Century, were victims of their versatility and a split in the NSW vote. Fulton played five-eighth and centre, while Langlands was a centre and a fullback, meaning they polled votes in two positions. Former Wests pivot Vic Hey had support as five-eighth from some of the older members of the panel; Gasnier was always going to be one of the centres, as was Churchill at fullback.
So when the votes were cast, the Queensland contingent presumably went for Lewis as five-eighth and Meninga as centre and there was not enough NSW support for Fulton and Langlands in a single position and they were relegated to reserves.
Yet, there is one secret document which has never been made public. The Team of the Century voting panel was also asked to list their best 10 players irrespective of position. My mail is Fulton and Langlands came in around third and fourth when the votes were tallied, meaning they had to be included in the 17. However, their split playing positions and the divided state vote meant they didn't win places in the top 13.
Back then, the Queensland contingent raised the matter of a player's off-field behaviour being a factor. They were clearly lobbying for the Broncos' great halfback Allan Langer ahead of Johns, who had recently confessed to drug use during his playing days in Newcastle.
I argued a player's on-field skills should be the sole determining factor and was supported by the former ARL supremo Ken Arthurson. Johns could defend like a forward and only Lewis has come close to him with tactical kicking skills, an increasingly important factor in today's game. His goal-kicking was on a par with Churchill and Langlands and he could match Lewis in passing skills. He was the best player I have seen in the past 20 years, which is the period I believe we should be considering.
By making him the eighth Immortal, it will clear the way for, say, Darren Lockyer or Billy Slater to receive the honour in 10 years' time. My vote, along with the others, will be locked in a vault, with RLW making the announcement at a Men of League dinner on September 27.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/old-tensions-surface-in-great-debate-over-immortal-eight-20120616-20goy.html#ixzz1xzztRpcR
The debate among the 18-member voting panel will resurrect some of the game's old arguments - forwards versus backs; NSW versus Queensland; players of the past versus recently retired ones; good citizens versus bad boys.
The three candidates most prominent in discussions leading to the honour, pioneered by Rugby League Week, are St George premiership-winning captain/coach Norm Provan; Canberra, Queensland and Kangaroo captain Mal Meninga and Newcastle, NSW and Australian halfback, Andrew ''Joey'' Johns. All are members of rugby league's Team of the Century.
The five living Immortals - John Raper, Reg Gasnier, Bob Fulton, Graeme Langlands and Wally Lewis - will vote for the first time. ARLC chairman John Grant, seven-time premiership-winning coach Wayne Bennett, past RLW editors, commentators Ray Warren and Ray Hadley, and historian David Middleton will vote.
Indications are the three St George Immortals - Raper, Gasnier and Langlands - will support Provan, who won 10 grand finals with the Dragons. Some believe Provan should have been anointed in 1981 when a panel of former St George player and coach Harry Bath, Sydney Morning Herald journalist Tom Goodman and commentator Frank Hyde decided the original four - South Sydney's legendary fullback Clive Churchill, Raper, Gasnier and Fulton.
Fulton has always, graciously, declared Langlands should have been inducted ahead of him. Langlands was added in 1999, along with Lewis. The late Arthur Beetson became the seventh Immortal in 2003.
The argument against Provan being included is that if his record, including international games played, was so compelling, then he should have gone in 31 years ago. Some will say Langlands was added retrospectively but he played on for another decade after Provan hung up his boots. The same argument applies to Meninga. If he was to be an Immortal, he should have been included at the same time as Lewis, his teammate in so many Queensland State of Origin victories.
Again, some will say Beetson, the Maroons captain in the inaugural Origin match in 1980, was added retrospectively, more than 20 years after he retired. They will argue Meninga was leading the Kangaroos to Ashes-winning victories less than two decades ago. Meninga recently said he considered being a member of the Team of the Century a greater honour than being the eighth Immortal.
I was a member of the voting panel for the Team of the Century when about 30 of us sat down at The Rocks to discuss it on the eve of the code's 100-year birthday party. It was very clear to me the Queensland contingent voted as a bloc.
Fulton and Langlands, who were named as reserves in the Team of the Century, were victims of their versatility and a split in the NSW vote. Fulton played five-eighth and centre, while Langlands was a centre and a fullback, meaning they polled votes in two positions. Former Wests pivot Vic Hey had support as five-eighth from some of the older members of the panel; Gasnier was always going to be one of the centres, as was Churchill at fullback.
So when the votes were cast, the Queensland contingent presumably went for Lewis as five-eighth and Meninga as centre and there was not enough NSW support for Fulton and Langlands in a single position and they were relegated to reserves.
Yet, there is one secret document which has never been made public. The Team of the Century voting panel was also asked to list their best 10 players irrespective of position. My mail is Fulton and Langlands came in around third and fourth when the votes were tallied, meaning they had to be included in the 17. However, their split playing positions and the divided state vote meant they didn't win places in the top 13.
Back then, the Queensland contingent raised the matter of a player's off-field behaviour being a factor. They were clearly lobbying for the Broncos' great halfback Allan Langer ahead of Johns, who had recently confessed to drug use during his playing days in Newcastle.
I argued a player's on-field skills should be the sole determining factor and was supported by the former ARL supremo Ken Arthurson. Johns could defend like a forward and only Lewis has come close to him with tactical kicking skills, an increasingly important factor in today's game. His goal-kicking was on a par with Churchill and Langlands and he could match Lewis in passing skills. He was the best player I have seen in the past 20 years, which is the period I believe we should be considering.
By making him the eighth Immortal, it will clear the way for, say, Darren Lockyer or Billy Slater to receive the honour in 10 years' time. My vote, along with the others, will be locked in a vault, with RLW making the announcement at a Men of League dinner on September 27.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/old-tensions-surface-in-great-debate-over-immortal-eight-20120616-20goy.html#ixzz1xzztRpcR
ooneil
OzCardTrader
Cant trust queenslanders.......
AyiosYiorgos
Card Addict
- Messages
- 5,069
- Location
- Sydney, NSW, Australia
- Real Name
- Michael
- eBay User
- st.george4life / TradingCardFactory
solution inducte 2, Provan and Meninga, then do the next one in 6 years time
steven1959
OzCardTrader
Michael, Provan's record is a stand alone, at the pinnicle of sporting achievement. If it comes down to a choice between Provan and Meninga, i'm quite comfortable with Provan finally being acknowledged for his on field contribution. A inconvenient wrong has been made right. The rest can wait.
As for Roy Masters(SMH), he always was a good salesman. He's support for Johns has been loud from the papers to "Insiders" - no secret there. His comparison of Johns to Wally Lewis' kicking game is crap. Lewis beat NSW with that 40/20, 20/20 kick into touch how many times? I suspect that the affect of Super League is still being felt and loyalty to ARL is to be rewarded. Not a gimme any more. As for Johns, no no no. Fact is he blew it on the field. We make mistakes and live with the repercussions for the rest of our lives. As for some of us, we learn and move on. I hope Andrew Johns does, a hard lession for one that was gifted and elite, but not the first talent the world of league has seen go down the drug path. If league was a Olympic sport, would we be even raising John's name. My suggestion is no. If i'm to be called a hater, because i'm a queenslander, fine. If i'm to be called a hater, because i believe Andrew John's own admissions of playing Rugby League under the influence of drugs, that are causing so many problems in our communities, exempts him from our games highest honour. Fine. You see, I was brought up that, son " if you stuff up - man up, learn from it and move on". Something some footballers are just not getting, that is, there is a unseen price to be paid...... one day
As for Roy Masters(SMH), he always was a good salesman. He's support for Johns has been loud from the papers to "Insiders" - no secret there. His comparison of Johns to Wally Lewis' kicking game is crap. Lewis beat NSW with that 40/20, 20/20 kick into touch how many times? I suspect that the affect of Super League is still being felt and loyalty to ARL is to be rewarded. Not a gimme any more. As for Johns, no no no. Fact is he blew it on the field. We make mistakes and live with the repercussions for the rest of our lives. As for some of us, we learn and move on. I hope Andrew Johns does, a hard lession for one that was gifted and elite, but not the first talent the world of league has seen go down the drug path. If league was a Olympic sport, would we be even raising John's name. My suggestion is no. If i'm to be called a hater, because i'm a queenslander, fine. If i'm to be called a hater, because i believe Andrew John's own admissions of playing Rugby League under the influence of drugs, that are causing so many problems in our communities, exempts him from our games highest honour. Fine. You see, I was brought up that, son " if you stuff up - man up, learn from it and move on". Something some footballers are just not getting, that is, there is a unseen price to be paid...... one day
ooneil
OzCardTrader
He never admited playing under the influence of drugs Steven.
I agree with your point but make sure you retell the story correctly.
And if we are going to keep people from being an immortal due to off field stuff then Johnny Raper is lucky the current media scurtiny was not around in his day.
I agree with your point but make sure you retell the story correctly.
And if we are going to keep people from being an immortal due to off field stuff then Johnny Raper is lucky the current media scurtiny was not around in his day.
thenamesgould
OzCardTrader
If he played under the influence of any of the drugs he was taking, he'd be lucky to find his way out of the dressing room onto the field! 
steven1959
OzCardTrader
I have retold this correctly, refer to John's statement "playing russion roulette" during the season. Why i stuck the "interview" on page one. End of story.
ooneil
OzCardTrader
He never admited playing under the influence of drugs. Yes taking drugs after the game but there is a big difference. If you have ever seen someone who has just dropped a couple e's you would understand they aint gonna be playing footy that day. Get YOUR story straight.
thenamesgould
OzCardTrader
king megator
OzCardTrader
I think that Johns or Wally will become the next to join this elite group of players
veebs27
OzCardTrader
As much as i love the Knights i think Norm Provan deserves the honour of being the next immortal. Full marks to Joey to owning up but it is still too early for such an honour , his time will come.
Brendan_B
OZCT Supporter
Has to be Mal. Joey eventually but Mal first
1967Sharks
OzCardTrader
This is way too long to read but it has to be Joey.
