Ozcards Top 10 Players in the NBA Thread

All im saying is while teams are trying to guard against Pierce, Allen and KG it opens up ore opportunities for Rondo that he would not have without those three around him.

And there is a correlation between the performance of a QB and the quality of his receivers - just look at Farve's and P Mannings season last year with their best receivers out. As for half backs - Peter Wallace is hardly a great half back without Darren Lockyer to carry him.

Your argument is good to a point, but still flawed. If he had a different supporting cast then teams won't leave them open more just because their names arn't Pierce, Allen and Garnett. Why then would players like my guy Korver and such space the floor? You can't leave anyone in the NBA open or they simply will put themselves in the right spot to score, particularly when you have a guy like Rondo who WILL get you the ball. If he had a different supporting cast, whom arn't as consistent as his current cast at hitting their shots, then yes his assists might drop. But that's about it you'd think.
 
Not necessarily true though Norm.

Remember the MVP is about who is most valuable. So circumstance and situation come into it a lot. When saying someone had a "better year" we often include team performance, and that specific individuals year in comparison to how they have done in the past etc. Rose is the MVP, but he's not a better overall player than LeBron, Wade, probably Kobe, maybe Dwight etc. He was just perceived to be "more valuable" to his team than they were this season by the media.

The key variable to remember is situation and circumstance. If LeBron was still with the Cavs I guarantee you he would have his 3rd straight MVP this season. So just cause Rose won MVP doesn't automatically make him the best, or better than some of the truly elite ballers in the league.

U state this like it's fact. Actually it's just your opinion. Just like I think he is actually better than Wade and Kobe.
 
Going with a couple of different ones.

1) Lebron James
2) Derrick Rose
3) Dwight Howard
4) Kevin Durant
5) Manu Ginobili
6) Dirk Nowitzki
7) Kobe Bryant
8) Chris Paul
9) D Wade
10) LaMarcus Aldridge (just for this season)
 
1. Derrick Rose
2. Lebron James
3. Dwight Howard
4. Kevin Durant
5. Dwayne Wade
6. Kobe Bryant
7. Rajon Rondo
8. Carmelo Anthony
9. Blake Griffin
10. Russell Westbrook

Honorable mention to: Randolph & Amare.
 
Dwight 1, lebron 2, rose 3, nowitzki 4, durant 5, cp3 6, wade 7, melo 8, kobe 9, amare 10
 
1. Pau Gasol
2. Dwayne Wade
3. Amare Stoudamire
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Camelo Anthony
6. Kobe Bryant
7. LeBron James
8. Dwight Howard
9. Paul Pierce
10. Rudy Gay
 
1. Lebron James
2. Dwayne Wade
3. Derrick Rose
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Dirk Nowitzki
6. Kevin Durant
7. Dwight Howard
8. Chris Paul
9. Derrick Williams
10. Monta Ellis
 
U state this like it's fact. Actually it's just your opinion. Just like I think he is actually better than Wade and Kobe.

True, it is just my opinion - there is no definitive answer. But all the signs point to my opinion being more right than yours (not that there's anything wrong with yours, sorry if that sounds blunt).

Stats (regular statistics and metro statistics), wins, and real life performance. Rose probably looks better because he's the alpha dog for the Bulls, but hey Wade and Kobe have already been there and done that. And when they were the alpha dog for their teams, they had much better individual seasons than Rose has had this season.

---------- Post added 27-05-2011 at 04:37 PM ----------

Your argument is good to a point, but still flawed. If he had a different supporting cast then teams won't leave them open more just because their names arn't Pierce, Allen and Garnett. Why then would players like my guy Korver and such space the floor? You can't leave anyone in the NBA open or they simply will put themselves in the right spot to score, particularly when you have a guy like Rondo who WILL get you the ball. If he had a different supporting cast, whom arn't as consistent as his current cast at hitting their shots, then yes his assists might drop. But that's about it you'd think.

I agree that you can't leave anyone open, but you have to agree that Garnett, Allen and Pierce get a lot more attention than your average starters would. Each is pretty much always a threat in his own way. 90% of the players in the league you don't chase around screens like you do Allen, 90% of 7 footers don't have to be guarded out to 19 feet like Garnett does because he can hit that J, and Pierce is pretty much a scorer in the same caliber of Kobe, Wade, McGrady of old etc so he has to always be guarded.

If anything I think whenever Rondo sneaks in for layups etc, that's because he's not getting the attention that his teammates are so he's able to find gaps while the defense is trying to monitor those other 3 guys.

I think if Rondo was on an average team he might lose 2-3 assists because he doesn't have such high % shooting targets, but I actually think his scoring would be more stifled. Great passers like Rondo always find a way to set people up. Look at Deron Williams. He went to New Jersey where they have like no scoring threats and he still averaged double digit assists.

But if Rondo was being played as the primary offensive option. I think he'd have a hard time scoring more than anything. And if you're not a threat to score, the defense won't give you the respect and play you in the way that allows you to draw defenders and open up others for shots.
 
As much as i love him, do people really think Pierce should be in the top10, i don't think so but i can't argue with some of your opinions :)
 
True, it is just my opinion - there is no definitive answer. But all the signs point to my opinion being more right than yours (not that there's anything wrong with yours, sorry if that sounds blunt).

Stats (regular statistics and metro statistics), wins, and real life performance. Rose probably looks better because he's the alpha dog for the Bulls, but hey Wade and Kobe have already been there and done that. And when they were the alpha dog for their teams, they had much better individual seasons than Rose has had this season.

---------- Post added 27-05-2011 at 04:37 PM ----------



I agree that you can't leave anyone open, but you have to agree that Garnett, Allen and Pierce get a lot more attention than your average starters would. Each is pretty much always a threat in his own way. 90% of the players in the league you don't chase around screens like you do Allen, 90% of 7 footers don't have to be guarded out to 19 feet like Garnett does because he can hit that J, and Pierce is pretty much a scorer in the same caliber of Kobe, Wade, McGrady of old etc so he has to always be guarded.

If anything I think whenever Rondo sneaks in for layups etc, that's because he's not getting the attention that his teammates are so he's able to find gaps while the defense is trying to monitor those other 3 guys.

I think if Rondo was on an average team he might lose 2-3 assists because he doesn't have such high % shooting targets, but I actually think his scoring would be more stifled. Great passers like Rondo always find a way to set people up. Look at Deron Williams. He went to New Jersey where they have like no scoring threats and he still averaged double digit assists.

But if Rondo was being played as the primary offensive option. I think he'd have a hard time scoring more than anything. And if you're not a threat to score, the defense won't give you the respect and play you in the way that allows you to draw defenders and open up others for shots.

I agree, but I think any team in the league would be stupid to play Rondo as a primary offensive option. Both the Celtics, or a team defending against him. So I don't see why it matters who he is playing with? Rondo scores like he does not because of the supporting cats, but because teams know that they can allow the occasional scoring outburst from the guy and still blowout the game themselves, as long as they stop other players from scoring. If you play Rondo as the primary offensive player then he'll absolutely kill you because he'd pass the ball all day long with no regard to putting up a shot himself, but if you sag off, give him the jumper, play him 1 on 1, he will blow by you before the help D can get across and score a few buckets, but 20 points is not going to make an inch of difference if no one else can score. He's never going to bust out and go nuts like a true scorer and light you up for 50. He simply doesn't have the tools.

So, in this way, I don't see him having a different supporting cast changing much about his game at all, and what he can and does do, he does very very well.
 
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