BGS 9.5 97 metal universe jordan PMG red /100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

M

michael

OzCardTrader
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Location
bay area, california, usa
Real Name
michael
Yes, it is legit. OWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where did this card come from? Well, take a look here.

This is the first time many collectors will have seen this card – one of the most highly sought after and discussed Michael Jordan cards on every message board online. Michael Jordan’s 1997 Metal Universe Precious Metal Gems Red /100 BGS 9.5 is one of those cards that you might hear about, but never see. Well…. here it is.

This is the ONLY Red PMG graded BGS 9.5.
If you follow Jordan cards at all, you know that a BGS 8.5 version sold for over $11K recently. Imagine if this ever hit the auction block. I don’t even care to put an estimate on it, especially with deep pocketed collectors who would go bananas over this card. In the meantime, enjoy looking at one of the most recognizable, highly sought after card ever made of the greatest basketball player, ever.

BGS 9.5 1997 Metal Universe Precious Metal Gems Red /100 Michael Jordan « HUPE ROYALTY: MICHAEL JORDAN EDITION
 
Im willing to bet that if its an early graded and slabbed BGS card that it had color touch ups done to it.

One of the major issues with PMG red is the chipping. Some have altered the card by doing color touch ups to the card. The color touchup takes well to the metal cards as they have a foil finish. So the color touch doesnt bleed or leave markings. Its impossible to come across a non chipped version of the card.

When purchasing one of these reds, you need to look very clearly at the edges where chipping usually occurs. if you see any sort of touchup, id definately avoid it. The green ones dont have the same issues from what I know. Its just too rare of a card to mess around with
 
How do you know this? Have you ever done it or do you have friends who do?


wbonus said:
Im willing to bet that if its an early graded and slabbed BGS card that it had color touch ups done to it.

One of the major issues with PMG red is the chipping. Some have altered the card by doing color touch ups to the card. The color touchup takes well to the metal cards as they have a foil finish. So the color touch doesnt bleed or leave markings. Its impossible to come across a non chipped version of the card.

When purchasing one of these reds, you need to look very clearly at the edges where chipping usually occurs. if you see any sort of touchup, id definately avoid it. The green ones dont have the same issues from what I know. Its just too rare of a card to mess around with
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michael said:
How do you know this? Have you ever done it or do you have friends who do?
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m1000, Its a real shame you have no real experience in this industry. All you have is a blog and rely on people to tell you what goes on.

Ive been in the industry for more than 20 yrs. I have many friends that have worked for Topps, UD, Fleer/skybox. Ive worked with distributors, card manufacturers and retail.

If you are implying that I do this type of business, then you are just reaching to save face on your faulty blog. You promote the sale of MJ cards to help your friends out. As soon as they are done selling, you go quiet.

Look at every PMG red for sales on ebay. Let me know if you see any that have no chipping at all? Aside from your new scan of a bgs 9.5. Have you even held a metal universe card in hand? Do you know the texture on foil surfaces? Do you not think its possible that this can be done? You need to gain some experience in this hobby before you claim to be some superstar know it all.

There are a ton of scams going out there. Everything from numbering on cards from certain products in the 90s to touch ups (Been done for years on cards and comic books), trimmed cards to grading manipulation. The fact that you can bump a damn card shows you that BGS grading is subjective. Basically if you pay more cash, we might make your grades better. LOL

I have never done it. I dont have friends that do this. Infact most of my friends from the hobby either worked for UD...work for Panini or own distributors now. They dont have time for 90s cards and baking them.

But I do knowfor certain that ive seen PMG reds that have been touched up at shows. No doubt about that. Dont be upset that you didnt know about it. Alteast there are people out there like me that can help spread awareness through experience.

Basic stock cards with black borders. People tend to color touch up these cards. They are sensitive to chipping and show. Black is easy to work with because the shades dont matter. But its hard to touch up black cards on white paper stock. It bleeds to the binding of the card. The white edges catch the color bleed from markers/paint. Its easy to notice and very hard to do.

Foil cards. You can try and use a marker to touch it up. But the marker uses ink non drying ink on foil surfaces. there is no primer on foil surface and its hard for marker ink to dry without rubbing out. The texture on the card is flat with imprint. So people look for paint or ink with adhevsive. Nail polish come to mind? It sticks to enamal. Therefore it must stick to foil. Its self adhevsive. People have been known in the past to use nail polish. But it causes unusall hardening and leaves a bump texture. You can feel it, but you wont notice it. Especially on minor chips tiny enough for the eye to miss. Best part of all?? On a foil card, the color touch up doesnt bleed. you cant see it on the edge of the card.

You need to do more research bud!!
 
wbonus.....pretty sure BGS would pick up on some touch ups....especially on what is inevitably going to be a very high profile card....and as far as dodgey bgs grading you refer to, again, too risky on this card i would of thought.
 
#1 is by blog faulty? sure it is, to a degree. i accept that. does that mean there isn't information on there that cannot be used by used others, and allow them to think for themself? i think there is.
are there any other blogs/sites online that are better, more accurate or devoid of having information that cannot be 100% verified? umm.. i don't know the answer to that. but if there is... please link me.

#2 have i ever claimed to be an expert? not at all. am i enthusiastic about sharing what i read and hear from people on ebay and message boards? ABSOLUTELY. my blog is one of thousands online, i'm sure i am nothing in the big scope of the entire hobby. that is perfectly fine with me.

#3 what friends are you talking about? you always accuse me of stuff but never mention any names. i think you are paranoid. the truth is that i have made acquaintances with other jordan collectors BECAUSE they see how passionate i am about jordan cards as they are, and they approach me asking questions and sharing information, privately. does that mean they are my best friends?! of course not. we have similar interests and enjoying talking among each other. whether people contact me from searching the word "jordan" online or we correspond thru PMs on message boards or ebay - it is simply people who have interest in michael jordan cards.

#4 you have 20 years old knowledge of hobby experience you say. why don't you share your knowledge thru a blog? your blog will be more informative and better than mine, and people will see another side of the hobby, if you share what you know. your background probably is gives you more credibility.

#5 i know more research is necessary. that's why i asked you. you learn by asking questions and listening.


wbonus said:
m1000, Its a real shame you have no real experience in this industry. All you have is a blog and rely on people to tell you what goes on.

Ive been in the industry for more than 20 yrs. I have many friends that have worked for Topps, UD, Fleer/skybox. Ive worked with distributors, card manufacturers and retail.

If you are implying that I do this type of business, then you are just reaching to save face on your faulty blog. You promote the sale of MJ cards to help your friends out. As soon as they are done selling, you go quiet.

Look at every PMG red for sales on ebay. Let me know if you see any that have no chipping at all? Aside from your new scan of a bgs 9.5. Have you even held a metal universe card in hand? Do you know the texture on foil surfaces? Do you not think its possible that this can be done? You need to gain some experience in this hobby before you claim to be some superstar know it all.

There are a ton of scams going out there. Everything from numbering on cards from certain products in the 90s to touch ups (Been done for years on cards and comic books), trimmed cards to grading manipulation. The fact that you can bump a damn card shows you that BGS grading is subjective. Basically if you pay more cash, we might make your grades better. LOL

I have never done it. I dont have friends that do this. Infact most of my friends from the hobby either worked for UD...work for Panini or own distributors now. They dont have time for 90s cards and baking them.

But I do knowfor certain that ive seen PMG reds that have been touched up at shows. No doubt about that. Dont be upset that you didnt know about it. Alteast there are people out there like me that can help spread awareness through experience.

Basic stock cards with black borders. People tend to color touch up these cards. They are sensitive to chipping and show. Black is easy to work with because the shades dont matter. But its hard to touch up black cards on white paper stock. It bleeds to the binding of the card. The white edges catch the color bleed from markers/paint. Its easy to notice and very hard to do.

Foil cards. You can try and use a marker to touch it up. But the marker uses ink non drying ink on foil surfaces. there is no primer on foil surface and its hard for marker ink to dry without rubbing out. The texture on the card is flat with imprint. So people look for paint or ink with adhevsive. Nail polish come to mind? It sticks to enamal. Therefore it must stick to foil. Its self adhevsive. People have been known in the past to use nail polish. But it causes unusall hardening and leaves a bump texture. You can feel it, but you wont notice it. Especially on minor chips tiny enough for the eye to miss. Best part of all?? On a foil card, the color touch up doesnt bleed. you cant see it on the edge of the card.

You need to do more research bud!!
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---------- Post added 29-08-2011 at 03:51 PM ----------
wbonus said:
But I do knowfor certain that ive seen PMG reds that have been touched up at shows. No doubt about that. Dont be upset that you didnt know about it. Alteast there are people out there like me that can help spread awareness through experience.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Have you ever seen PMG reds that are touched up that are encapsuated by BGS or PSA? I'd love to see pictures.

Who are these sellers that have touched up PMG reds? Have you ever shared the names of these sellers in the past? I think if you really want to help people and spread awareness as you say, you should at least state the card show, date, dealer, seller of these cards that you KNOW are touched up.

MIKE
 
drsma1 said:
wbonus.....pretty sure BGS would pick up on some touch ups....especially on what is inevitably going to be a very high profile card....and as far as dodgey bgs grading you refer to, again, too risky on this card i would of thought.
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THe hobby has a history of card problems when it comes to grading. Weve seen with our own eyes that certain cards get a well to do pass on gold label when they are pretty obvious to the eye that they arent mint. Weve seen bumps on cards that dont deserve it. Its all subjective. BGS is not alone. PSA has had its moments as well. Back in the day when PSA grades were found faulty as a select person was passing off high grades to cards that didnt stand a chance of their grade. Its all been done. I even said that if this was an early grade, it could have easily pass the ranks and gone missed when grading. You may not believe me now, but as time goes on and people spend more and more on cards, they will see the flaws, short cuts and hidden marks being touched up and it will concern them. Especially when you drop $15k on a card.

To M1000 as to why I dont share my information? Ive done so in spurts in the past. All it does is get me death threats, threats and idle threats. It gets me people threatening to harm me, sue me and lose character. Im done with it. I dont need the threats. I dont care for them and honestly dont need my family to worry. whether they are idle or not, they are still threats. I mean if im so wrong, why threaten me?? If there is nothing to hide and im all wrong, why go out of your way to try and prove me wrong??

drsma1, this card hasnt been high profile till now. Its still out of /100 and in abundance. Take a look at 52 topps mantles. Thats a high profile card and grading has been questioned on that card. The jordn pmg red has never hit anything over $5k till this year. Still a drop in the bucket compared to early mantles.

To each their own. Advocasy in the industry keeps everyone informed. NOthing more!!
 
@wbonus

i understand your sentiments about it being not worth it if you are getting harassed. that's fair.

truthfully, to an extent, i feel like you harass me with your accusations. do i sweat it? nah, not for the most part. i actually enjoy the banter online. i take it in stride. you're in toronto, i'm in california. it isn't as if either us could punch the other through a computer screen.

i am.. however.. really interested in who you you think im in cohoots with. i'd love for for you to post it this a thread or PM me privately. i can honestly say that I am not using my blog to purposely assist any ebay seller's sales. yet you seem to constantly believe i am. im so curious why.. and i'd like to know who these people are.

seriously. PM those names to me or post them.
 
So wbonus, what do you say should be done? Take it out of the case and re-grade it? Don't think you can just go around accusing people of stuff.

If people want to pay crazy amounts for a card then let them. So someone just paid $11k for an 8.5, so what if someone is crazy enough to spend $20k on this card, they obviously have an abundance of cash.

I totally get what you're on about by saying how much dodgy stuff is going on, there's not that much we can do about that, there's crooks everywhere.

I just don't get what you're suggesting here, sounds like an accusation with no evidence, that's all.
 
I am not taking any sides here but there is some truth in what wbonus mentioned (not all of it). I do not want to accuse any one party as I do not have all the evidence in hand as well. But I need to say that there is very strong conspiracy between Beckett, card manufacturers, distributors and retailers. Their main aim is simple, make as much as money as possible even if they need to publish misleading articles, give preferable grading to some selected customers, etc. As collectors, my best advice is not to get caught up with the hype and collect what you can afford.
 
So far all I see is accusations and no proof.

I think your blog and articles are doing the hobby nothing but good Michael. Until I see some evidence, I don't believe speculation.
 
ozballer23 said:
So far all I see is accusations and no proof.

I think your blog and articles are doing the hobby nothing but good Michael. Until I see some evidence, I don't believe speculation.
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the blind leading the blind. Your right. The world is perfect. No one is doing anything shady!!! I wonder if willy wonka will re issue his golden bars one day.

I dont mind. THis type of material falls on deaf ears until it hits home. By then its too late. Oh well for suckers!!!
 
wbonus said:
the blind leading the blind. Your right. The world is perfect. No one is doing anything shady!!! I wonder if willy wonka will re issue his golden bars one day.

I dont mind. THis type of material falls on deaf ears until it hits home. By then its too late. Oh well for suckers!!!
Click to expand...

No one said the world is perfect. You just come here, with whole heap of accusations and nothing else. Show us something, anything that backs up what you say.
 
wbonus said:
the blind leading the blind. Your right. The world is perfect. No one is doing anything shady!!! I wonder if willy wonka will re issue his golden bars one day.

I dont mind. THis type of material falls on deaf ears until it hits home. By then its too late. Oh well for suckers!!!
Click to expand...

Seriously, all you seem to post is accusations and/or negative crap... Michael is simply blogging what he has found, what he has been told... Have you seen this 9.5 in hand or high res? Has it got the touch ups that you are so sure it has? Yes, it may will be EXTREMELY hard to get one of the red's without chipping but who says one didn't make it through fine? Seriously, as much as you throw sh!t at people about all the touchups that use to go etc etc and all your worldly 20 years worth of knowledge, until you can actually get good enough pics to qualify your accusations about this card who the hell are you to say it's not worth a 9.5...?
 
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