Alex Owumi: I played basketball for Gaddafi

[Billyhoyle]

A great story, very graphic so I won't post it here about a player who played for the Gaddafi team in Libya when the rebels took over

Alex Owumi: I played basketball for Gaddafi
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25933297

 

[Matt26]

I read it last night.....amazing story.....very graphic.

 

[loafic]

wow man... now that is a story and a half... imagine living through that

 

[Lazlow]

And its people with stories like this that are being locked up and turned away by our Government.

 

[Mr Paparazzi]

And its people with stories like this that are being locked up and turned away by our Government.

Most of these people get turned around for a reason, some even get through the gaps. I worked as an officer for immigration detention services for several years and saw many people get in and many turned around which could have been 50/50.

 

[Lazlow]

Most of these people get turned around for a reason, some even get through the gaps. I worked as an officer for immigration detention services for several years and saw many people get in and many turned around which could have been 50/50.

I was referring to the new policy of intercepting boats and turning them back, they don't even get the luxury of having their cases heard. I understand that not every case is genuine and some may have a criminal history.

Ultimately my point was that asylum seekers are constantly vilified by sections of the media and the government, generalised as "illegals" and portrayed as a threat, yet its stories like Owumi's that might make people consider what they're actually fleeing from.

 

[Mr Paparazzi]

I was referring to the new policy of intercepting boats and turning them back, they don't even get the luxury of having their cases heard. I understand that not every case is genuine and some may have a criminal history.

Ultimately my point was that asylum seekers are constantly vilified by sections of the media and the government, generalised as "illegals" and portrayed as a threat, yet its stories like Owumi's that might make people consider what they're actually fleeing from.

Exactly as they are coming here illegally. From my 4 years as a detention officer and an international escort officer probably 1-2 out of thousands I looked after were legit. Most threw their passports away so they couldnt be identified, as most had committed crimes in their home countries. Then they lie about what village they are from in indonesia or afghanistan/pakistan. Cost tax payers tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of $$$ in legal costs, dental, medical and for investigators/interpreters to track down their actual past.

Media and government vilify them because they are exactly that illegals and most of the indonesians come here to get good food, dental etc then get deported and they used to be allowed to take their money us taxpayers gave them as a weekly allowance home. Which would buy them a home or two and then would tell other family members to make out they were fisherman that get stranded in Australian waters.

The afghanis and other arab nations that come here, don't even respect or like our country. They come all across the world to Australia because they knew we were the most lenient country and once again if they get a visa granted tens of thousands to settle. Including a car allowance etc. Now I know for a fact I wasnt given $5-10k from my government to buy a car when I turned 16 or 18.

We should look after our own citizens first, our homeless, unemployed rather than spend billions accepting people who dont even like/respect Australia.

Would love for people who critize or question why our government is getting tough on boatpeople or illegals to work 1 month we them or have a family of so called refugees move in with them.

It's a shame about that guy from Libya as he could be a true refugee. Not the ones we get come to our shores.

 

[taffster74]

I agree with Mr Paparazzi - if they're legitimate about coming to our country, do it legally and respect our laws, culture and ways. If we were to go over to the countries and pull the same stuff these illegals pull, we'd be thrown in jail.

 

[Lazlow]

I really was hoping this would just die because I didn't want to get into a thing here.

Regardless of you prejudices, experiences and opinions it is patently incorrect to call them "Illegals".

They are doing nothing illegal.

The Refugee Convention, which Australia is a signatory to, makes its possible for an individual to enter a country unauthorized, with or without documentation, for the purposes of seeking asylum. Australian Law permits people to enter unauthorized for the purposes of seeking asylum.

Calling them "Illegals" was a directive from Scott Morrison to push a policy that contravenes our obligations as a signatory to the UN Convention on Refugees. (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...at-people-called-illegals-20131019-2vtl0.html)

Australia has more "Illegals" in tourists and students that outstay their Visas.


Why do they do it? To put it into perspective, there are 2 million people fleeing the conflict in Syria, however only 10,000 people have been accepted as refugees from Western Nations. The conflicts in Afghanistan have displaced 2.7 million people.

With the way this is portrayed you'd think we were constantly inundated by refugees. It’s not the case. Australia receives 3% of asylum claims among developed nations. More arrive by plane (13 per day) than by boat. The UK has a much greater number of refugees looking to be resettled than we do, despite their smaller landmass and high population density.

As for the idea that being a developed nation makes us a greater target, UN figures show that is no true, as undeveloped nations house far greater numbers of refugees than developed nations.

Australia being "girt by sea" is our greatest defence from being targeted by refugees. Imagine how nuts people would be about this topic if we were a landlocked European country!?

As for their asylum claims, in both 2010-11 and 2011-12 both sides of government showed that over 90% of claims were legitimate. Even during the Howard years, 85% of claims were legitimate.


As for dealing with immigrants and refugees, I can only go on my own experiences. One of my best friends in primary school was from a family of Tamil refugees. Cairns probably has more problems with people defacing the mosque than we do with Muslims pushing some apparent Islamic agenda. But then the Muslim community in this region has been here for nearly 100 years. For every Muslim crime reported in the news (the recent guy that had married a 13 year old) there's the same crime committed ten times over by white Australians (the current royal commission into child sex offences amongst the catholic church and salvation army).


The "Australian Way" survived 55,000 Vietnamese refugees, it will survive the substantially smaller amount of boatpeople currently in waiting.


And yes, there are many domestic issues I'd rather the government be putting more time, money and effort into.

 

[rishgoon]

I really was hoping this would just die because I didn't want to get into a thing here.

Regardless of you prejudices, experiences and opinions it is patently incorrect to call them "Illegals".

They are doing nothing illegal.

The Refugee Convention, which Australia is a signatory to, makes its possible for an individual to enter a country unauthorized, with or without documentation, for the purposes of seeking asylum. Australian Law permits people to enter unauthorized for the purposes of seeking asylum.

Calling them "Illegals" was a directive from Scott Morrison to push a policy that contravenes our obligations as a signatory to the UN Convention on Refugees. (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...at-people-called-illegals-20131019-2vtl0.html)

Australia has more "Illegals" in tourists and students that outstay their Visas.


Why do they do it? To put it into perspective, there are 2 million people fleeing the conflict in Syria, however only 10,000 people have been accepted as refugees from Western Nations. The conflicts in Afghanistan have displaced 2.7 million people.

With the way this is portrayed you'd think we were constantly inundated by refugees. It’s not the case. Australia receives 3% of asylum claims among developed nations. More arrive by plane (13 per day) than by boat. The UK has a much greater number of refugees looking to be resettled than we do, despite their smaller landmass and high population density.

As for the idea that being a developed nation makes us a greater target, UN figures show that is no true, as undeveloped nations house far greater numbers of refugees than developed nations.

Australia being "girt by sea" is our greatest defence from being targeted by refugees. Imagine how nuts people would be about this topic if we were a landlocked European country!?

As for their asylum claims, in both 2010-11 and 2011-12 both sides of government showed that over 90% of claims were legitimate. Even during the Howard years, 85% of claims were legitimate.


As for dealing with immigrants and refugees, I can only go on my own experiences. One of my best friends in primary school was from a family of Tamil refugees. Cairns probably has more problems with people defacing the mosque than we do with Muslims pushing some apparent Islamic agenda. But then the Muslim community in this region has been here for nearly 100 years. For every Muslim crime reported in the news (the recent guy that had married a 13 year old) there's the same crime committed ten times over by white Australians (the current royal commission into child sex offences amongst the catholic church and salvation army).


The "Australian Way" survived 55,000 Vietnamese refugees, it will survive the substantially smaller amount of boatpeople currently in waiting.


And yes, there are many domestic issues I'd rather the government be putting more time, money and effort into.

Well said. I don't think we can get too political here on Ozcards, rightly so, but there is a terrible attitude towards asylum seekers in this country.

 

[KyleP]

As previously stated, it is legal to claim asylum so to claim that they come here illegally is false. It just goes to show the extent of the problem and attitude towards asylum seekers in this country that someone who says they worked as a detention officer is claiming it is illegal.

As for saying they should have come by plane, with a visa and ticket etc. well that is a luxury that people who are genuinely fleeing a country due to safety concerns etc. just don't have. And if you want to argue that they should have come properly by plane with a visa etc. most illegal immigrants in this country came by plane and have overstayed visas and those who come by boat are far more likely to have genuine claims to asylum.

 

[Mr Paparazzi]

Not true at all Mat. Have you worked with any of these so called non-illegals??

Have you had experience with Indonesian's who purposely buy cheap run down boats to be caught in Australian waters by our Navy?? Who when I was working in detention used to get paid $50 per week by all our tax payers good $$ to leave with several hundred when they left Australia. That is why we have aggressively stepped up our campaign to turn boats around. Our Navy should not be dealing with them.

The Refugee Convention that Australia is a part of is correct, you have read books but there is always loop-holes. Exactly what I had mentioned previously why do Afghani/Iraqi/Yemeni/Irani people mainly flee from there to one of the furthest countries from them??? It is simple we are the most lenient, US, UK and other European countries have stricter guidelines in place. Also I don't call them refugee's when they flee a country with thousands upon thousands of $$, who then pay smugglers to get them to Indonesia en-route to Australia. 90% of the people I worked with had enough money to apply through the correct channels not pay illegal people smugglers.

I have also been a soldier in the Australian Army and seen the effects that Afghanistan has done to our own troops, my brother's first campaign was Rwanda and Somalia while there he seen thousands of woman and children slaughtered before his eyes, yet very few of those true refugees didn't make it to Australia figure that maybe because they were true refugee's. My brother was then killed by an Iraqi while helping the Iraqi people train their own police force from raping and pillaging their own people.

This goes to show the people we are processing without full knowledge of their background. From the 40's to now many people from all walks of life have settled to make Australia home, Italians, Greek, Vietnamese, Chinese etc have all contributed to Australia and its economy and were never given any handouts once the arrived. Whether you claim your figures based on developed nations has no sustance or matter. Answer this why would they "illegals" pay smugglers to get them to Australia than go to countries which are closer by any means including $$$ to get to.

You are correct with over-stayers from tourists to student visa's but hey they love our country and want to stay longer.

Like you said with your experiences, your friend is Tamil, I have many friends from all walks of life, my hairdresser is Kurdish and we have great chats about why and how he came here correctly. You also quote about Mosque's getting damaged in Cairns of this I do not condone or like but riot's like Cronulla don't happen for no reason. Or the Skaf brothers gang rapes because white girls were whores and lower than them. Now justify that. I have a friend who is a police officer in NSW and says compared to other nationalities population in NSW, there is an alarming number of crime rates increasing from so called boat people from arab nations and their lack of respect for Australia and it's people. Hence "Cronulla Riots"

You are correct their is many many more things then process your friends the "illegal ones"

As previously stated, it is legal to claim asylum so to claim that they come here illegally is false. It just goes to show the extent of the problem and attitude towards asylum seekers in this country that someone who says they worked as a detention officer is claiming it is illegal.

As for saying they should have come by plane, with a visa and ticket etc. well that is a luxury that people who are genuinely fleeing a country due to safety concerns etc. just don't have. And if you want to argue that they should have come properly by plane with a visa etc. most illegal immigrants in this country came by plane and have overstayed visas and those who come by boat are far more likely to have genuine claims to asylum.

You my friend have no idea, hence why they pay thousands more to get illegal people smugglers to smuggle them here than go through the correct channels, true refugees have little to no money and are taken in by Refugee or Displacement camps and then flown and signed over to countries like USA, UK and other settled nations at costs incurred by Red Cross, UN, various countries.

 

[Dogs2194]

No excuse for damaging others holy places
And by you (and your Kurdish mate) trying to justify it shows your racism
And pap all these Arabs your reffering about are locally made products not of boats so what's your point

 

[taffster74]

I'll chime in here (again) with some real examples. I'm not saying all immigrants are bad - you get the bad with the good in all walks of life. I went to school with a lebanese guy (a dark lebanese, more Arab in his features than lebanese) who rarely hung out with the other lebanese people - rather he preferred to hang out with the Aussies. His family were true immigrants from Lebanon and he told me things about what was happening there that i didn't know about - the army's recruiting method was to bash down the family door at midnight and take all males above the age of 10 to be soldiers. Training consisted of putting a boy in a pen with a chook - that boy had to chase the chicken around, catch it, then kill it with his own hands. His parents worked hard, his elder brothers worked hard and, when he finished year 12 he became an apprentice mechanic with the intent of eventually running his own business. On the other side of the coin, I lived opposite lebanese at the same time. The father of the family of four claimed the infamous "Lebanese Back" from day one. within 18 months of them moving in, they had a 2 story, eight bedroom brick house built without any semblence of a lawn or garden to be seen. The father - "Fred" - helped his mates build the house despite his "Back issues". Fred's english was poor and he never worked all the time we lived opposite him. How did he get the money to build the house? Further examples. Where I live now, we have two african families - immigrants from the Sudan who were given housing commission houses immediately upon arrival. The one family immediately behind my complex has three - yes, three - cars. None older than three years.

My point is this - people claim that there are no illegals and that they have nothing when they get here. That may have been true with the immigration waves from the 1920's to 1980's. It certainly ain't true now. When my Italian Grandparents came here in 1920, they had nothing to their name. My great grandfather was a war hero. Both of them had to start from scratch to make a living in this country. WWII didn't help, as my great-grandfather and my great uncle were both interred in camps for the duration of the war. Uncle Sandy was born here and was only 17 when WWII broke out. Both had Australia citizenship and were still discriminated against because of their heritage. The same is happening now - exept it's us Aussies who are being discriminated against by - admittedly - a minority of muslim immigrants because our governments have laid down and shown their bellys in regards to freedoms. Our governments have compromised everything Australia has stood for to pander to the demands of a small minority. any one who cannot see that is blind.

And I'm not at all racist - as i said above I have italian immigrant heritage. I also have cousins who are half black pakistani and i treat them just like anyone else.

 

[Mr Paparazzi]

No excuse for damaging others holy places
And by you (and your Kurdish mate) trying to justify it shows your racism
And pap all these Arabs your reffering about are locally made products not of boats so what's your point

Not really it was showing that I have friends from all walks of life. You read into it too much.

Most of them are imports not locally made how do I know because other detention officers and myself were the ones who had to deport them to lebanon, iraq, iran and other arab countries when they got out of jail after having their Australian status revoked. I only speak from experience not innuendo or prejudice towards Arabs. I have friends who are from all different Arab nations and agree with me it comes down to their teachings, their religion and the fact they have been fighting brutally for thousands of years.

 

[Mr Paparazzi]

and I'll chime in with my last bit before I forget about this post, one of my great mates while I was serving in the Army, was Egyptian and his Dad was a devout Muslim and Army leader in Egypt, other soldiers didn't take to him well purely because we were involved with Iraq and Afghanistan at the time.

 

[Dogs2194]

I'm not talking of imports these are the 2 reasons you used to justify a mosque being vandalised

Skaff bros

Greenacre sydney
Born in bankstown hospital

Cronulla riot
The lifesaver in cronulla that was bashed by teenager that was born here as well

 

[ooneil]

To me this whole asylum seeker issue is way overblown and nothing but a beat up and scare campaign orchestrated by politicians for their own gains to deflect on their inability to govern this country.

 

[taffster74]

The cronulla riots didn't start because of a lifesave being bashed by a teenager. what started was the way middle-eastern teenaged males and adult men were looking at and talking to young australian girls. The lifesaver simply stepped in and told them that the sort attention they were displaying was innapropriate. I know if i saw/heard a person calling a 12 year-old girl a slut I'd certain step up and say something.

 

[Dogs2194]

Your 100% right
but Were are you going to deport them to Tasmania that's my point there from here originally not the boat people yours supposed to be talking about

That was a shameful day for Australian history