BGS to begin grading Star Basketball cards

Discussion in 'Basketball - General Discussion' started by johnsmithysmithy, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. johnsmithysmithy

    johnsmithysmithy OzCardTrader

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    Hello Old School Basketball lovers,

    Not sure if there a discussion on this forum as yet for Australian collectors, I think its great news.

    Since collecting basketball cards in the early 1990s, they always listed these cards and I thought when I was young dreaming of having a 1984/85 Star Co Michael Jordan XRC #101 would be awesome but for $3000 bucks back then and hardly ever seeing Star Co I thought they were so rare, Then I learnt no one wanted Star Co cards and 1986/87 Fleer was the real deal with old school basketball collectors and every grading companies had a piece of the pie and Star Co was just floating only to be graded by GAI.

    Now that BGS have come on board, it will be good to get them to come alive again, there are alot of fakes out there but if it wasn't for Star Co, there would of been a huge gap with topps stopping after the 1981/82 season, Star Co had alot of sets and subset and there so many Jordans in the 1984/85 set, I really think people should get into these cards.

    So what they ain't real RC cards, thats another story, I think they are real RCs in bag set, Star Co came around trying their ideas with the bag sets and basketball was a joke to most everyday Americans in the early 1980s.

    I think the 1983 to 1986 Star Co set are great, too bad they ain't around today If Star Co hanged around for another 3 or 4 years, they might of made some profit but I reckon we should be proud of them, in believing in basketball where Topps and Fleer just gave up.

    I hope these cards get notice in the next few months, they are already getting listed in BGS graded covers on ebay, good on them Beckett :)

    Here is the story

    Beckett Grading Services to begin grading Star Basketball cards The Beckett Blog
  2. chadjaja

    chadjaja On the way back!

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    What makes BGS think they can actually do it??

    BGS are known for passing fake autos, being piss poor graders of vintage and older cards already.

    And to top it off the fakes are actually be re produced with the original printing plates making it almost impossible to spot the fake cards from the original cards.

    I trust some of the other companies to grade them but based on track records BGS have no idea unless its a modern card and they are only grading condition. Thats pretty much fact in the hobby.
  3. dickyKnee

    dickyKnee Professional Student

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    Surely they are genuine if BSG says they are genuine.....:lol:
    And i guess in reality thats what a large segment of the market will think. It will be interesting to see what % they reject as reprints.
  4. chadjaja

    chadjaja On the way back!

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    Yeah I'd like to send in some bad fake and a real thing and see what they say LOL

    Wonder how the secondary raw market will react to this news and how many dodgey sellers pop up now with cards like the USA cards that should be rare and only in small numbers?

    At times the number for sale nearly exceeded the print run for some sets and thats not accounting for cards already in peoples pc's.
  5. graham

    graham Site Admin OZCT Supporter

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    Its not going to be about fakes being rejected, its going to be about the reprints ending up as the genuine article. What Chad says is 100% correct - they were reprinted using the original plates so they are going to look exactly the same and impossible to differentiate between the reprints and the originals. How does BGS suppose they are going to tell the difference - carbon dating ??
  6. johnsmithysmithy

    johnsmithysmithy OzCardTrader

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    Well they hired the big dog Steve Taft, he was working for GAI but now offering his services to BGS for a large contract, Im not sure how good Steve is but I guess alot of people might jump onto BGS and the value of GAI graded cards might go down, If it can work, it will be good, maybe we will see a BGS 10 1984/85 Michael Jordan XRC #101 , another RC that might
    add some more attraction and If the Jordan is limited, it could be sky high! maybe more than 1986/87 Fleer RC #57 BGS 10 of $150,000

    Who knows
  7. Dr. Curlytek

    Dr. Curlytek PhD in "Things and Stuff"

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    Not carbon dating, but if they are serious about it they could tell the difference from the different ink that would have (likely) been used to make the originals and the fakes. Question is are they serious...
  8. chadjaja

    chadjaja On the way back!

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    Steve knows his stuff but is he going to look at every star card that goes thru the place. And even then its pretty bloody hard to tell the diff even for an expert. A lot of it will be guesstimating not verifying.

    I agree with Doc, get the inks tested LOL
  9. graham

    graham Site Admin OZCT Supporter

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    But it doesn't say Steve will be looking at every single piece

    Says nothing about him actually doing any of the cards into the future.

    Oh well, good luck to them.
  10. Dr. Curlytek

    Dr. Curlytek PhD in "Things and Stuff"

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    It's pretty easy, you don't need much kit to be able to tell if there is a significant difference in the chemistry of the inks used between the real deal and any fakes printed at a later date. Even if they used the real plates, it is unlikely they would have used exactly the same inks. There are a number of techniques used in examining heritage art which could equally apply to collectible cards.
  11. johnsmithysmithy

    johnsmithysmithy OzCardTrader

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    Steve, will just have to train others tho, Just like GAI are grading now without him.

    Actually Steve is selling a few cards his already graded, the bugger is trying to make some money but his set his minimum bid price at a high price

    1985-86 Star Co. NBA #117 MICHAEL JORDAN BGS 9 MINT - eBay (item 250332321798 end time Dec-02-08 15:04:49 PST)

    Check out the Star Co cards his selling and grading doesn't start until Dec 1st lol
  12. dickyKnee

    dickyKnee Professional Student

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    Don't they normally have to take a small chip of paint to to that type of examination though? Or is there some way to chemically analyse the ink on the card?
  13. Dr. Curlytek

    Dr. Curlytek PhD in "Things and Stuff"

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    No, there are plenty of non-destructive techniques, you can image whole paintings and see differences in the paints between originals and copies. Unless the inks used are essentially identical, they will have some characteristic spectroscopic signature, like a fingerprint, that can be used to distinguish them. If the original plates were used to make the fakes, then their only options to legitimately and accurately tell them apart will be by differences in the card stock or the inks.
  14. dickyKnee

    dickyKnee Professional Student

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    Sounds good, but if they are going to go those lengths it likely to cost a fortune :lol: somehow i don't see that being part of the BGS service.
  15. Dr. Curlytek

    Dr. Curlytek PhD in "Things and Stuff"

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    Well, as I said in the first post, it doesn't cost all that much to set up the kit to do it...it is a very small amount especially when you consider what a highly graded Star Jordan XRC might fetch, get one of those wrong and you have already made a bigger $ mistake than the kit costs!

    But as you say, it probably won't be part of the BGS service.
  16. dickyKnee

    dickyKnee Professional Student

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    Any idea how GAI does it?
  17. Dr. Curlytek

    Dr. Curlytek PhD in "Things and Stuff"

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    Eenie, meanie, minnie, moe?
  18. dickyKnee

    dickyKnee Professional Student

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    :lol::lol:

    In that case i think BGS, will flagrently plagiarise the GAI model.
  19. graham

    graham Site Admin OZCT Supporter

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    Here's a excerpt from the link above posted by Beckett

    So really, it's impossible to tell if it is the original or a reprint unless you have the card in hand. You are taking matters into your own hands if you buy a raw card sight unseen.

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