What do the OCT NFL people think of Flawless ?

What I don't understand is how they can have autos of rookie QB's AJ McCarron, Logan Thomas, Aaron Murray, Tajh Boyd, and Tom Savage yet none of Derek Carr!

Also, Justin Blackmon should not be in this set.
 
Watched a few LBB breaks... The whole suitcase idea is pretty lame...more so when the cards get moved around as there's no recess for the cased ones. One had the keys on top of the encapsulated card, wonder if it got scratched. If I had of bought shares I might have come away with a Faulk auto/jersey..nice card but would have cost me abut $180 to get it...

Seeing some nice encapsulated cards (one had a Sanders and an Elway in the same box!) but it goes down a bit when they open the inner box and start pulling the rookies...
 
The BIG hits are good (Brady etc) but there are few that really justify buying a box/case. I'd like a jumbo patch or two to go with my basketball ones, and when a Shady McCoy jersey numbered one sold for under $30 today you have to wonder how many people are being cleaned up.......
Or just doing what Blackrose is doing and listing things for about ten times their value...
 
That Link to thread is an interesting read. I don't really know what to say lol. It will be interesting to see if there is ever a response. The worry of them being exclusive is an interesting argument. If they are the only product with rights to the nfl pictures for cards, collectors will keep returning. Will be a link/thread worth monitoring
 
Damn, that was a good read... I know we get "fake" stuff as in event worn etc in releases all the time, but if they're putting that stuff in Flawless and claiming it's game worn...then just wow...
 
Wowser. Guess that's why you stick to autos. Surely they're all legit...

You would hope so, but then when you see very different autos from the same player, things get a little blurry...


Also slightly OT, but related to Panini none-the-less, I remember seeing another thread regarding 2012 Contenders Andre Luck, RG3 and Wilson autos (pretty sure it was the whole 3). They were all SP, and yet the amount that have been graded is well above what the actual print run was on these cards. Sure some could have been re-graded but was also a very interesting read. I can try and find the thread if anyone is interested.
 
Damn, that was a good read... I know we get "fake" stuff as in event worn etc in releases all the time, but if they're putting that stuff in Flawless and claiming it's game worn...then just wow...

Yeah I have always been weary of all the event worn patches etc and have never been a big jersey / patch collector because of this (and for the fact that Raiders have have awesome looking patches!) Have you ever seen the photo of Mark Ingram I think it was with a huge bunch of jerseys on?
 
You would hope so, but then when you see very different autos from the same player, things get a little blurry...


Also slightly OT, but related to Panini none-the-less, I remember seeing another thread regarding 2012 Contenders Andre Luck, RG3 and Wilson autos (pretty sure it was the whole 3). They were all SP, and yet the amount that have been graded is well above what the actual print run was on these cards. Sure some could have been re-graded but was also a very interesting read. I can try and find the thread if anyone is interested.
Yes, I would like to read it if you can find it.
Yeah I have always been weary of all the event worn patches etc and have never been a big jersey / patch collector because of this (and for the fact that Raiders have have awesome looking patches!) Have you ever seen the photo of Mark Ingram I think it was with a huge bunch of jerseys on?
This is my main reason for being an auto collector. I understand that yes they could turn out to be just as dodgy as game used/event worn. But SURELY they can be trusted or followed a little easier. For example with the NBA, I know stories got put out in the public for info purposes when players like LeBron and Chris Paul had decided to alter their signature. On the other side, I also follow the world game and I'm sure a few of you would have heard about the debacle with Futera and their football cards. Basically got caught out with fake signatures as well as false claims in regards to match/event worn. Main case that springs to mind was a Pele memorabilia card that claimed to have been match worn when someone worked out it was a current day Brazil top.
 
I can't find the original one I remember seeing, but these two make for some interesting reading...

There is this one regarding RG3:
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/...ontenders-autographs-multiple-versions-4.html

And this one regarding Wilson:
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/...rs-variation-auto-25-please-respond-here.html
Lol. The whole RG3 thread could have been resolved with a simple statement like what I referred to with LeBron and NBA. Upper deck put that out stating that cards dated xyz will look like this and anything from now on will look like this. Surely Panini could have done something similar to help out?
I find the Wilson story a lot more concerning. Because that can prove to be a blatant lie misleading the general public! Disgraceful!
 
Lol. The whole RG3 thread could have been resolved with a simple statement like what I referred to with LeBron and NBA. Upper deck put that out stating that cards dated xyz will look like this and anything from now on will look like this. Surely Panini could have done something similar to help out?
I find the Wilson story a lot more concerning. Because that can prove to be a blatant lie misleading the general public! Disgraceful!

I highly doubt Panini probably even noticed the signature change themselves / even cared if they did!
 
Zero faith in any card company tbh. Between this from Panini, Devonte Smith Pelley using a stamp for his Upper Deck autos (incl 11/12 The Cup) and Overeem having 3-4 different signatures between Leaf, Topps and I.P., no card company comes out looking clean.
 
A couple of years ago one of the NASCAR drivers Brad Keselowski submitted a heap of auto's that were auto-penned. Every auto exactly the same and the card company never noticed. The collector's twigged to it, and raised it with Press Pass. They investigated and in the end were pretty good and replaced all the auto-pens with real auto's. So at least they did the right thing. If any of this Flawless stuff is true, Panini need to get ahead of it fast, though I don't know how they'd recover from something like this...we're not talking a $70 box of Rookies & Stars here....

If they don't move to come clean and explain or rectify, I think it's up to us hobbyists to complain to NFL Properties.

Oh and Brad's auto hasn't been seen in a NASCAR set since. Not sure if he won't sign or Press Pass won't let him !
 
Exactly AusRam. If this was a standard patch in a box that costs $100 or so I don't think anyone would care too much at all - I'm pretty sure this happens in those releases anyway (and not just from Panini). But this is in Flawless. A box release of over $1000 for 10 cards!! There is no excuse what so ever that all the relics in this are not actual game used material (including from rookies).
 
Zero faith in any card company tbh. Between this from Panini, Devonte Smith Pelley using a stamp for his Upper Deck autos (incl 11/12 The Cup) and Overeem having 3-4 different signatures between Leaf, Topps and I.P., no card company comes out looking clean.
The Smith-Pelley issue included Panini as well. I had a Contenders redemption that I was compensated for rather than have fulfilled. Pretty sure I saw that come down to the player being too lazy to sign and had his manager stamp them all for him. Or something along those lines. It's sad that we have all these kinds of stories, but I guess it's the same as most things these days. Enter at your own risk. With these stories and the like we know we have to tread carefully, trust who you want to and believe what we want to.
 
Exactly AusRam. If this was a standard patch in a box that costs $100 or so I don't think anyone would care too much at all - I'm pretty sure this happens in those releases anyway (and not just from Panini). But this is in Flawless. A box release of over $1000 for 10 cards!! There is no excuse what so ever that all the relics in this are not actual game used material (including from rookies).

Yeah, I think we all pretty much look on jersey swatches as nice decorations for cards these days and not much else.....But Flawless is a whole 'nother beast and they're selling it as the real deal...
 
A couple of years ago one of the NASCAR drivers Brad Keselowski submitted a heap of auto's that were auto-penned. Every auto exactly the same and the card company never noticed. The collector's twigged to it, and raised it with Press Pass. They investigated and in the end were pretty good and replaced all the auto-pens with real auto's. So at least they did the right thing. If any of this Flawless stuff is true, Panini need to get ahead of it fast, though I don't know how they'd recover from something like this...we're not talking a $70 box of Rookies & Stars here....

If they don't move to come clean and explain or rectify, I think it's up to us hobbyists to complain to NFL Properties.

Oh and Brad's auto hasn't been seen in a NASCAR set since. Not sure if he won't sign or Press Pass won't let him !
Exactly AusRam. If this was a standard patch in a box that costs $100 or so I don't think anyone would care too much at all - I'm pretty sure this happens in those releases anyway (and not just from Panini). But this is in Flawless. A box release of over $1000 for 10 cards!! There is no excuse what so ever that all the relics in this are not actual game used material (including from rookies).
You are both 100% correct. And it's funny because I know I have found myself on numerous occasions searching the bay for Flawless singles. I come across an old school guy patch auto and my first thought is "really? How in the hell have they managed a card like that of him?! Wow!!" But that's the extent of my questioning. From now on, it probably won't be...
 
Non-sport releases are looking more and more better. I have gone off NFL nearly fully this year which is a shame because the Raiders actually have a couple decent rookies I could have been chasing too!
 
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