what coach/player do the bulls need

Washington...mmm less then impressive...

how many 40 year olds have u seen play basketball? it showed how determined he was and how strong too. If he didnt have tendinitus in his knees, he would have led them into the playoffs and who knows what else.
 
Dunno what to say here anymore.

so here's what i found LOL

2134217030_6a5d880882_o.jpg


I gotta agree one thing.. Paxson did terrible jobs in human resources and he didn't try hard to keep Deng and BG7. Signed Wallace crazy contract. Nuff Said...
 
How did Michael Jordan make his teammates better?

Look at these stats:

Horace Grant 12.63 points 8.7 rebounds (1987-1994, Chicago Bulls with Michael Jordan)

Horace Grant 9.7 Points 7.0 rebounds (1994-2004 Orlando Magic, Seattle Supersonics, LA Lakers)

Big drop? Further more...


BJ Armstrong 10.2 points 3.38 assists (1989-1995 Chicago Bulls with Michael Jordan)

BJ Armstrong averaged 6.4 Points 2.63 assists for 1995-2000 palying for Golden State Warriors, Orlando Charlotte Hornets, Chicago Bulls

These are the teammates you call great... But without Michael Jordan?... How About Pip?

Scottie Pippen averaged 17.63 points 10 Seasons with Michael Jordan

Scottie Pippen averaged 12.51 points in 7 seasons apart from Jordan including the 1993-1994 season he served as interim-leader of the Chicago Bulls.

Yes he needed these guys to win the damn rings but apart from him they were also ordinary cept for Pippen.

How did Michael Jordan made his teammates better again? Please tell me why these players drop their numbers apart from Michael Jordan?

When did anyone say they those guys were great, perhaps you need to go back and read my posts, or is it a case of your nut hugging of Jordan blinding the clear written message.

Well to clarify your point on Grant, he had a number of solid seasons in Orlando as 2nd fiddle on that roster, and has never been regarded as the go-to-guy, and played well within Jackson's system in LA also.

Pippen was soft and always will be, i rest my case on him no question, i dont rate him, good player no question, but far from being in the 50 greatest players or whatever of all time.

Your joking when you want to being BJ in this discussion aren't you, damn even Thomas traded him to Golden State when he was running the Raps, so from one point guard to another that suggests something, even with an expansion team looking for leadership, he wasnt considered that overly valuable.

Now i am sure for your referance i stated that Mr Krause added solid players to fill roles and responsibilities, which evidently that seemed to have done, both by way of personal and team success, hence stats were higher within the system they played in and also the team one a number of championships, or did you over look that post, in your daze of Jordan loving??????

I think in your blinded love for the "His Airness that the system they played in benefitted a number of players and the team overall...and that had a great deal to do with the triangle installed by Tex Winter, for prior to that being implemented and clearly grasped both Jordan and the Bulls had meagre success.
 
how many 40 year olds have u seen play basketball? it showed how determined he was and how strong too. If he didnt have tendinitus in his knees, he would have led them into the playoffs and who knows what else.

Well on two accounts he was merely motivated in my opinion to play to ensure the value of the Wizards was increased financially, which evidently it did so, and secondly, he assembled the roster and a considerable say over the running of the team....and mmmm less then impressive is my grade on that end result....much the same to the current standing of the Bobcats.

I hope for the fans in Carolina that the team turns the corner, after the hard work done by the founding administration of the team, but don't overlook the marketing and financial ploy of Jordan's involvement, and Bob Johnson saw that first and foremost, over any potential basketball management acumen Jordan & Co have at thier disposal.


As for the Bulls, well i am still leaning to a franchise clean-out, with John Hammond replacing Paxson, with Larry Brown on the bench.....or a Wayne Cooper and Terry Porter combination....for no doubt if Paxson gets his papers, a front office guy will bring in his own guy....much the same as Sam Presti and likely Ed Stefanski will do this summer with the 6ers...
 
you talk alot basketoz, but your avatar's very pleasing :) :lol:

Sorry bout that, at times i run with it, and when frustrated it becomes a long winded post, more the fact that people base opinion on the love or adoration for a guy, rather then facts and figures.

Yes she is a fine specimen of a woman.


Anyway end of rant...
 
Sorry bout that, at times i run with it, and when frustrated it becomes a long winded post, more the fact that people base opinion on the love or adoration for a guy, rather then facts and figures.

Pippen was soft and always will be, i rest my case on him no question, i dont rate him, good player no question, but far from being in the 50 greatest players or whatever of all time.

These comments just show that you know very little about basketball LOL. You claiming Mike wasn't the greatest and now your calling Pippen soft:woot::woot::woot::woot:.Can i ask you how can he have won 6 rings with the Bulls if he was SOFT????????.

Many here will also agree with me that Pip is one of the top 50 players of all-time if you weren't BLIND.

clearly grasped both Jordan and the Bulls had meagre success.

Jordan could have easily done it without Pippen and Phil but he could not have done it without another player of Pippens caliber. I think Phil's role in their championships is more than slightly overrated. However one player cannot win a championship alone (unless everyone else is terrible) that is why a supporting cast is needed.

A great player makes everyone else around him better, that was the case with Jordan and Pippen, Jordan allowed Pippen to come into his own as a good player through many different ways. I believe that Jordan could have brought the saMe thing to the table with almost any other team.
 
Well on two accounts he was merely motivated in my opinion to play to ensure the value of the Wizards was increased financially, which evidently it did so, and secondly, he assembled the roster and a considerable say over the running of the team....and mmmm less then impressive is my grade on that end result....much the same to the current standing of the Bobcats.

Mate, Jordan ain't motivated by money, but Lebron is. Jordan donated all his earning as a Wizard to help the victims of the September 11th tragedy attack on US.

Besides Jordan stated that he wouldn't have come back to the Wizards if he knew he was gonna to get the sack in the end.The wizards used him.... Jordan played injured, went through surgery and did many of the things the young players today in the league won't even do. He didn't have to to it at all, but he did it to help the Wizards organisiation win ball games.That to me say's alot about how great Jordan really was.
 
I didn't want to reply to this thread without seeing the results on the court.

The bulls, 2-2 since skiles firing, 2-1 with boylan running the show, but still the same result with the youngsters, noah/tyrus - 12 mins each total in 3 games.. sad.. so perhaps audition them for a gasol trade, wallace/tyrus/vk for gasol/warrick.. nice!!??

secondly

look at the bulls now, already competing and winning games again (knicks/bucks, close loss to the magic in OT.. one of the easts powerhouses).. everyones numbers are up (bar noah/TT.. and maybe duhon due to bad shooting).. I like where they're heading to now, they got their swagger back, new coach, basically a fresh start.. let's wait and see how the next month pans out.. who knows maybe they'll pull off a trade.. or perhaps keep improving with what they've got.. have faith



thirdly

Off topic..... but did you just compliment Collingwood??:eek:

yes.. I only did it because if I said Essendon youngsters people would laugh and not see the point.. considering I'm on an Eddie McGuire based site (isn't it???) I should say the right things to get my point accross...

fourthly

you cannot be bagging jordan for his comeback to the wizards.. the man did some amazing things playing on a bad knee at the age of 40.. amazing.. I'm still in denial, and did not want to see him play again after 98, let alone play again for another team.. makes me sick to the stomach, but you can't say he didn't do much.. not his fault the team sucked, and kwame (at the time) was a bust..
 
Just found this....
Former Chicago Bulls great Scottie Pippen says he's serious about coaching, and if there is an opening with the Chicago Bulls, he believes he's perfect.

"What's my disadvantage?" Pippen asked. "No NBA coaching experience? [Scott] Skiles' record with the Bulls wasn't that great. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to do what you've done your whole life. I've played basketball, run teams and won.

"They didn't put me at point guard because I could dribble good. They put me there because I could run a team. I wasn't the best dribbler, the best shooter. I wasn't a point guard. But I knew how to run a team."

Source: Chicago Tribune
 
if Pippen coaches then it'll be bye bye Kirk (I don't want that personally) and bye bye Gordon surely...

check this out..

Gordon Responds To Pippen's Critique
January 1, 2008 - 2:08 am
Chicago Tribune -
Scottie Pippen's scorched-earth assessment of current Bulls players and his stated desire to coach in the organization spread through the locker room quickly Monday.

"I don't really care what Scottie has to say," Ben Gordon said.

In Monday's Tribune, NBA reporter Sam Smith quoted Pippen offering one of his harsher critiques when dissecting Gordon's game, claiming he selfishly takes bad shots.

"Everybody's entitled to their own opinion, but it doesn't have anything to do with anything," Gordon said. "When I see him, I say hi out of respect. He's a top-50 player. That's the extent [of our relationship], really."

Pippen also bluntly assessed Kirk Hinrich's game, claiming "you can't have midgets running your backcourt." The two had a strong relationship as teammates during Hinrich's rookie season of 2003-04.

"I always liked Pip, and we got along great," Hinrich said. "I don't think he's ever been afraid to speak his mind, even when he was here. I never felt like it was anything too crazy."
 
Mate, Jordan ain't motivated by money, but Lebron is. Jordan donated all his earning as a Wizard to help the victims of the September 11th tragedy attack on US.

Besides Jordan stated that he wouldn't have come back to the Wizards if he knew he was gonna to get the sack in the end.The wizards used him.... Jordan played injured, went through surgery and did many of the things the young players today in the league won't even do. He didn't have to to it at all, but he did it to help the Wizards organisiation win ball games.That to me say's alot about how great Jordan really was.


Mate fair dinkum, Jordan isnt motivated by money...did he not come back for a rumoured $30 million dollar season or something ot that effect, yeah he played for all the right reasons...spare me mate, ignorance and nut hugging is bliss. :worthy:

And how noble of him to part with his money for 9/11 victims, him and many more did the same, doesn't make him any less or more significant then any other charitable donor. :worthy:

See i dont see how you make mention of hsi efforts to play ball for the Wizards, when he was in the front office firstly, demonstrated less then quality judgement on talent, and to ensure the value of the Wizards which he was part owner kept its value.

Believe whatever you like about Jordan, makes no difference to me whatsoever, however adoration and worship sometimes blinds the facts that Jordan, which was the original discussion part is a poor front office guy.
 
Off the topic, have a read of this.. well it's kinda on topic.. I found this amazing

Michael Jordan v. Bill GatesMichael Jordan of the Chicago Bulls.

What's he got to do with Bill Gates?

In US dollars...

Jordan will make over $300,000 a game, $10,000 a minute assuming he averages about 30 minutes a game.

Assuming $40 mil in endorsements next year, he'll be making $178,100 a day (working or not)!

Assuming he sleeps 7 hours a night, he makes $52,000 every night while visions of sugarplums dance in his head.

If he goes to see Independence Day, it'll cost him $7.00, but he'll make $18,550 while he's there.

If he decides to have a 5 minute egg, he'll make $618 while boiling it.

He makes $7,415/hr more than minimum wage (after the wage hike)

He'll make $3,710 while watching each episode of Friends.

If he wanted to save up for a new Acura NSX ($90,000) it would take him a whole 12 hours.
If someone were to hand him his salary and endorsement money, they would have to do it at the rate of $2.00 every second.

He'll probably pay around $200 for a nice round of golf, but will be 'reimbursed' $33,390 for that round.

He could take 1/100,000th of his income and buy some poor college student 5200 packages of Ramen.

If you were given a tenth of a penny for every dollar he made, you'd be living comfortably at $65,000 a year.

He'll make about $19.60 while watching the 100 meter dash in the Olympics.

He'll make about $15,600 while the Boston Marathon is being run.

While the common person is spending about $20 for a meal in his trendy Chicago restaurant, he'll pull in about $5600.

Next year, he'll make more than twice as much as all of the United States' past presidents for all of their terms combined.

And something to cheer you up after all of this:

Jordan will only have to have this income for 270 more years to have a net worth equivalent to that of Bill Gates.
 
These comments just show that you know very little about basketball LOL. You claiming Mike wasn't the greatest and now your calling Pippen soft:woot::woot::woot::woot:.Can i ask you how can he have won 6 rings with the Bulls if he was SOFT????????.

Many here will also agree with me that Pip is one of the top 50 players of all-time if you weren't BLIND.



Jordan could have easily done it without Pippen and Phil but he could not have done it without another player of Pippens caliber. I think Phil's role in their championships is more than slightly overrated. However one player cannot win a championship alone (unless everyone else is terrible) that is why a supporting cast is needed.

A great player makes everyone else around him better, that was the case with Jordan and Pippen, Jordan allowed Pippen to come into his own as a good player through many different ways. I believe that Jordan could have brought the saMe thing to the table with almost any other team.

Mate, while its clear you dont bother reading what is posted, i shall remind you where exactly did i comment that Jordan wasnt a great player?

I dont recall stating that, anywhere, i sad in my opinion he wasnt the greatest player, and looking back though 50 odd years of the NBA, its is debatable on whether he was, era v era is not detemirnable and never will be, position v position is never determinable.

Statistics are misleading, and not representable of all facets and in-game factors, so whilst Jordan is a great player, no question, i doubt you or I have seen 50 odd years of NBA to determine anything other then that Jordan would be one of the greatest if not the greatest player of the last 20 years of professional basketball.

And back to Pippen, please the guy whinged regularly, was infamous for not going back into a game when he apparently had a migraine....now c'mon when you mention your boy Jordan, you speak in glowing referances of how he did things of heroic and selfless nature, what was that Pippen did which warranted him firstly being selected and secondly your unwaivering support in him one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history.

Geez even Kobe is a better player then Pippen, and while i disdain him as a individual he warrants selection of Pippen.

And for Pippen's coaching dreams....how would he or does he warrant mention in regards to a coaching oppurtunity with clearly no experience even as an assistant coach or even scout for that matter.
 
Not to harbour on the Pippen possibility but i came across an interesting post made by a felllow member of the APBR (Association Professional Basketball Research), on thier message board -

Pippen's always struck me as a person of about-average intelligence. Of course, I forget how many truly dumb people are out there; so maybe he's average as basketball players go. Or somewhat above.

Head coach needs to be a person of considerably-above-average intelligence. Let's just say 'very smart', to be brief. Pippen has a track record that includes some pretty dumb things-done. One that he reveals is an apparent unwillingness to be an assistant.

"Best 2nd-banana" isn't really a universal best resume'-entry. Prove that you can co-exist within a team management hierarchy. I'm sure Scottie would make a better coach than most ex-players. But there are only 30 head coach positions, vs thousands of ex-players.

I think that sums up Pippen's situation nicely.
 
fourthly

you cannot be bagging jordan for his comeback to the wizards.. the man did some amazing things playing on a bad knee at the age of 40.. amazing.. I'm still in denial, and did not want to see him play again after 98, let alone play again for another team.. makes me sick to the stomach, but you can't say he didn't do much.. not his fault the team sucked, and kwame (at the time) was a bust..


I 2nd that mate:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:.

Whilst Jordan may not have been the player he was with the Bulls. He was still better than 3/4 of the league alone. Jordan also proved he still had it to perform in pressure situations...hitting clutch shots at all-star games, hitting game winners over Cleveland, Suns, Knicks etc.Nobody could do it better than Mike at that age :worthy::worthy::worthy:
 
not his fault the team sucked, and kwame (at the time) was a bust..

Yeh your right, it's up to the players to perform. Can't blame Jordan.

When he was with the Wizards he didn't have a competitive fire or a solid work ethic. Some players only play for the money. Since the NBA has guaranteed contracts once you sign you are going to get your money. When money is your motivator and you already have that in the bag why work hard? He is just used to being able to physically dominate over high school guys and with no college experience to ease him into that next level he was overwhelmed and gave up.
 
how many 40 year olds have u seen play basketball? it showed how determined he was and how strong too. If he didnt have tendinitus in his knees, he would have led them into the playoffs and who knows what else.


So actually at 39 years of age, with tenidinitus, he managed to play in season one 60 games averaging 34.86 minutes per game. Granted he missed the last 10 games of the season along with others, however at that stage, the Wizards were 5 games behind 8th placed team, and went 3-7 with Jordan down for the last 10 games. In addition with the 60 games he played the Wizards in 2000-01 the team travelled 30-30 a .500 mark and even averaged out for an 82 game season a 41-41 record still wouldnt have got a play-off birth.

Support case and #2 bannana for the 00-01 season was one Rip Hamilton who had numbers of 20ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.7 rpg, so certainly no slouch, in his own right, and while Pippen apparently is deserving of his legendary top 50 status, why was Jordan not able translate those numbers of Hamilton's in play-off appaerances?

Season two played all 82 games and averaged 36.96 minutes per game. Team failed to make play-offs again and his Robin to his Batman was one Jerry Stackhouse who put up the numbers of 21.5 ppg, 3.68 rpg, 4.5 apg. Again same question as above?

And the team travelled 37-45 and was 5 games out of the play-off and dropped four of thier last five games including two by 13 or more points in which MJ played 35 minutes per game.


I am not doubting the guys ability, commitment, skill or heroics, but it seemingly is amusing that Jordan23 makes comments without knowledge or basis like an adoring 16 year old. If you wanna love MJ thats fine, but dont talk up his game in Washington, or his front office ability as oyu have done, to date without some supporting argument or basis other then purely unsibstantiated in most part personal opinion or whatever you have watched in Jordan highlight reels, SLAM magazine or our once or twice week NBA coverage on FoxSports.

Jordan's comeback with the Wizards was a failure, encouraged by Abe Pollin, David Stern and MJ's pocket, and did nothing to ensure his status remained as it should've, it showed an old man trying to mix it up sadly when he was not up to it, all the time while financially having ensured his interests were maintained, and as for the fact he gave his salary to the 9/11 victims, spare me the dramatics of that point, after consideration, the guy was part/minority owner of that team, and made a hell of alot more money from that transaction then what he wouldve for those two seasons playing.
 
Yeh your right, it's up to the players to perform. Can't blame Jordan.

When he was with the Wizards he didn't have a competitive fire or a solid work ethic. Some players only play for the money. Since the NBA has guaranteed contracts once you sign you are going to get your money. When money is your motivator and you already have that in the bag why work hard? He is just used to being able to physically dominate over high school guys and with no college experience to ease him into that next level he was overwhelmed and gave up.

A Jordan23, didnt you only a few days talk up Jordans front office skills and stewardship?

I could be wrong and can't be bothered looking to clarify that fact, but correct me if i am wrong, however didn't Jordan assemble the team (draft certain players, make the trades and sign the free agents) in his capacity as Minority Onwer/President Basketball Operations from January 2000-Sept 2001, that being the coaching staff and players that he was actually forced to play with?

I dunno i may have missed something there, don't blame Jordan!!!

Who else is responsible then?

Keep me interested mate, the amusement is unbounding thus far...and work ethic in regards to Kwame Brown i take it...well i seem to recall Jordan drafted him #1 overall didnt he?

And his motivation for not kicking on and working hard and apparently playing with the greatest player of all time, was he had a guaranteed contract....


It gets better....
 
Ok the amusement thus far...

1.
They need someone called Jordan to be running the show. MJ would be a perfect fit since he can be a player/manager just like with the Wizards 5 yrs ago.

OK wrong, yuu can be either one or the other as he was with the Wizards a few seasons ago. Hence when he retuend he sold his ownership stake back to Abe Pollin

2.
Bring Jordan back to rebuild to the Bulls.Jordan belongs to the Bulls.There ain't anyone who has the credentials like Jordan has.

Interesting what credentials are they?

3.
I can only dream but Jordan is now the perfect fit for the job.What he has done for the Bobcats this season can not be understated. Bottom line is Jordan has a proven record and Paxton has not(cept for that title winning shot against the suns in 93).Pls Mike come back to the Bulls we need you now!!!

Yes as in my earlier post, it was you so need to clarify my earlier query. And just for discussions sake what has he done for the BobCats and/or Wizards that has benefitted them, aside from bums on seats, more corporate dollars coming in the door, and increasing the franchise values of both in which he has or had an ownership stake?

4.
What BROWN???...... I'm hope you don't mean Kwame Brown lol, that guy is one of the worst players in this league.Has no post moves, no jump shot, no speed, no defense, and no potential. He is just flat out a player who is making the NBA slip in appeal and is just an embarrassment to the NBA and every organization.

Refer #3 as you said his proven record speaks for itself. He drafted him #1 overall.


5.
Jordan simply wanted to retire as legend and felt it was right time and also didn't want to play a lock-out shortened season.

Why did he return from retirement, possibly tarnish his image, whilst injured as to your statement, when no chance of play-off sucess was clearly evident.

6.
Jordan could of won on any team without them, but he needed a Pippen-like player to help him win the rings.

Being the front office guru you claim he is in #2 and #3 why didn't he recruit players of this calibre to ensure success. And how dissimilar where the players he played with those of the Bulls in that championshop era?

7.
how many 40 year olds have u seen play basketball? it showed how determined he was and how strong too. If he didnt have tendinitus in his knees, he would have led them into the playoffs and who knows what else.

I think he was 39, and what happened in the 2002-03 season he was fit, healthy and played all 82 games?

8.
These comments just show that you know very little about basketball LOL. You claiming Mike wasn't the greatest and now your calling Pippen soft.Can i ask you how can he have won 6 rings with the Bulls if he was SOFT????????.

You spoke earlier of MJ making Pippen a better player among many others, you said clearly that MJ was th reason they had success, and if going by your statement, then that would be the reason PIppen won 6 rings, not from him being tough or strong.

9.
I think Phil's role in their championships is more than slightly overrated.

So 6 rings with the Bulls and a few more to boot with the Lakers from memory, he and/or Tex Winter and the triangle are slightly over rated?


10.
I believe that Jordan could have brought the saMe thing to the table with almost any other team.

Why did he not do this with the Wizards?

11.
Mate, Jordan ain't motivated by money, but Lebron is. Jordan donated all his earning as a Wizard to help the victims of the September 11th tragedy attack on US.

I think your slightly idealistic on that one my friend, most people are motivated by money, whether professional sports people, businessman or just the average Smokin Jo.

12.
Besides Jordan stated that he wouldn't have come back to the Wizards if he knew he was gonna to get the sack in the end.The wizards used him....

So was he expacting to be hand fed with a job for life by Abe Pollin and the Wizards, no job is full proof and safe, most people in whatever line of employment are usually fired or quit at some stage, rarely are we able to stay to the end and retire....its called being employed from memory.


13.
Whilst Jordan may not have been the player he was with the Bulls. He was still better than 3/4 of the league alone. Jordan also proved he still had it to perform in pressure situations...hitting clutch shots at all-star games, hitting game winners over Cleveland, Suns, Knicks etc.Nobody could do it better than Mike at that age


He wasn't whilst i hate referring to it, statistically the best player on his own team, and while your there go buy a singlet young fella, the All-Star Game and clutch shot...sorry the two dont even go together on the importance scale.





Well anyways i am done have a laugh and amusement at your expense, that is a re-cap on the topic to date, and the things that have kept me amused this most recent New Years long weekend.

Hope all enjoyed the festive period and have a safe and prosperous New Year.

Thanks again Jordan23, and mate its not personal, more a case of boredom for me then anything...
 
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