what coach/player do the bulls need

[white_chocolate_55]

What BROWN???...... I'm hope you don't mean Kwame Brown lol, that guy is one of the worst players in this league.Has no post moves, no jump shot, no speed, no defense, and no potential. He is just flat out a player who is making the NBA slip in appeal and is just an embarrassment to the NBA and every organization.



I still think if they were going to fire Skiles, they should have chucked Paxson out as well.Over the past yr Paxson has made too many obvious mistakes: Tyrus Thomas for LaMarcus Aldridge? Thabo Sefelosha drafted over Rudy Gay? Not to mention passing up on Kobe..... Paxson is next i'm afraid

Ok I'm going to reply to yours first.

1) Yes I meant Kwame Brown, he's not the lazy player he once was, he has some nice moves, but most importantly he's a big boy. Consider this, I put Wallace in the trade, so if I'm offering giving up our center (for $$$ matching reasons) then we'd need a big in return. We're too small as it is, so getting the 6'11" / 270 lbs Brown (4.6ppg 5 rpg20.6mpg) 25yo for the 6'9" / 240 lbs Wallace (4.2ppg 8.4rpg 31.5mpg) 33yo seems quite fair.

Secondly, Tyrus Thomas playing under Skiles/Myers/Boylan regeme was always going to fail. LeMarcus would be throwing up the same numbers. Tyrus is a beast waiting to be unleashed, but will not do so playing 5-6 mins per game. He is not a bust, just like Tyson Chandler wasn't, he just had a bad coach that hates and will refuse to play the youngsters unleased forced into it (see Deng).

Just wanna throw out there, read "when nothing else matters" the Jordan book, and see why Krause is a franchise killer.

 

[steve-o]

the bulls need a total clean out and they need to get a quality player in there team

 

[steve-o]

pau gasol is what the bulls need and a decent defender because big ben wont be around for that long

 

[steve-o]

well the chandler trade by the bulls was a bad move the bulls need a decent foward/center and pau gasol is what they need wallace is not the answer secondley why did the bulls pick up joe smith there most of being somome better then that

the bulls need to get active in landing a big name player and sorting out the coaching roster a clean out or a shake up is what they need

 

[white_chocolate_55]

Big Ben still has what it takes to be a great player and DPOY. However, he hasn't got another tall to keep the offensive/defensive boards alive, he's got to do it himself, which you will find impossible to do when your the focus on being boxed out, where in Detroit he had Sheed helping out, or distracting some of that focus. When Noah/Thomas get more minutes they'd be hard to stop. The problem with the Bulls is, they want the ring/glory right now, rather than milk/breed their young talent and bring them all to the same page. You look at players in football, Collingwood youngsters, they get played into the ground, make mistakes yet are still on the field. Two different games yes, but they learn from their mistakes and learn to do what it takes to win.

Edit: Steve-o , yes Chandler and Wallace would have dominated the paint (under a different coach) but you can't have two guys worth 60+ million on the team, with Gordon/Hinrich (at the time)/Deng/Nocioni (at the time) coming out of contract... that would have "forced" a trade earlier.

Do some reading, Chandler never would have shined like he is now under the Skiles regime.. not even under Boylan would he shine.. The Bulls DO NOT PLAY YOUNGSTERS.. It sucks but they don't...

goto www.realgm.com and select chicago bulls on the right hand side, read what their local fans think.

One last thing, yes I'd love Gasol on the team, but the Grizz wanted Deng/Gordon/Nocioni and probably Tyrus Thomas or 1st Rounder (Noah).. would you pull the trigger?? I certainly wouldn't.

 

[steve-o]

off course they would of but doing a trade is what they need
kwame brown on the other hand has potential but would he add anything at the bulls

 

[white_chocolate_55]

I would say i am far from bagging Paxson, and believe his moves thus far since the Krause/Floyd era have been solid, he has acquired some nice parts, but nothing major has been acquired, by way in my opinion of a championship calibre player, all though rumours have continually abounded of talks involving Chi-town.

Personally while Krause is labelled as the franchise detroyer, and many other names, i do like the one he earned early in his career "crumbs" for continually getting donut or hot dog bun crumbs on his suit jacket, i dont recall who actually gave it to him, but it was mentioned in the book "Jordan Rules" from memory.

Anyways back to Krause and his ability as a GM, i dont rate him amongst the worst personally (Ike Thomas, Bob Whittsitt, Scott Layden and numerous Cavs people in the early 80's easily spring to mind), no question the whole Floyd debacle was something that hurt the franchise, but overtime he had made many well considered moves for the franchise which was in a shamples after the Rod Thorn era, in the late 70's and early 80's.

I thought the moves and players added around Jordan were good workmanlike players who didnt require a great deal of the ball and realised and assumed thier roles within the team.

He got John Bach on board the coaching staff (rumoured to be potentially re-joining the team) early in the piece and who is reknwoned as one of the better defensive coaches in the NBA along with Dick Harter also.

I am not a supporter of Krause, but believe he did well with a franchise over a long period, no doubt as earlier mentioned the Floyd era and the end of Jordan/Jackson era were handled less then well, for all parties but i always wonder how much that had to do with the ownership group as much as Krause during that time.

If you too where to read "when nothing else matters" or "the last season: a team in search of it's soul" there's plenty of references that claim;

* Krause didn't even want Jordan
* Krause claimed Kukoc would be better than Pippen, sparking rumors to trade him to Seattle for Kemp (yes Kemp was good, but really????)
* Krause forced Phil/Pippen/Rodman/Jordan to disband from the team.. Jordan would have signed elsewhere if he hadn't cut tendons in his thumb forcing him to sit the year, but retired in the end...
* Got rid of Longley for nothing, yet kept the likes of Randy Brown/Wennington etc...
* Gave up Kerr for nothing
* Traded Kukoc for nothing
* Let Ron Harper walk

the list goes on... rough quotes but you get the picture.. there's a reason he's gone and Paxson remains..

 

[steve-o]

so krause was the man who crushed the bulls?

 

[white_chocolate_55]

pretty much.. forced them into oblivion.. wanted to rid of all signs of the old franchise, though was very surprised he traded kukoc.. keep in mind, he also pulled the trigger to trade Elton Brand on draft day for (either Chandler/Curry)..

Terrible terrible moves, considering Elton was the next big thing (coming of Rookie of the year) 20ppg 10rpg 2bpg.. you trade him for a high schooler.. ouch

 

[jordan23]

Problems with the bulls and why they should get rid of Paxson.

1. They Paid Ben Wallace too much, he shoot low percentage and all he do is block shots and rebound, and he rarely do that now, he was better with the pistons because of the veteran circle they have

2. Tyrus shouldn't try to gain weight, he is decreasing his athletic ability

3. They need a physical point, because they don't have a low post threat

4. They have too many role players

5. Deng, Kirk, BG7 are secondary stars

GOD DAMN..I'm so pissed off....I couldn't believe John Paxson did this...Skiles is not the person to blame...It is the players..If I were him, I could have changed the roster as soon as possible..

6. THEY ARE NOT PHYSICAL

 

[Footycardtrader]

Big Ben still has what it takes to be a great player and DPOY. However, he hasn't got another tall to keep the offensive/defensive boards alive, he's got to do it himself, which you will find impossible to do when your the focus on being boxed out, where in Detroit he had Sheed helping out, or distracting some of that focus. When Noah/Thomas get more minutes they'd be hard to stop. The problem with the Bulls is, they want the ring/glory right now, rather than milk/breed their young talent and bring them all to the same page. You look at players in football, Collingwood youngsters, they get played into the ground, make mistakes yet are still on the field. Two different games yes, but they learn from their mistakes and learn to do what it takes to win.

Off topic..... but did you just compliment Collingwood??

 

[basketoz74]

No one has questioned the poor moves Krause has made, and i personally have a disdain for the Bulls, however Krause built that team around Jordan, and added role players who accepted roles and repsonsibilities within that structure.

Krause was always and will always be a "smuck" or "fool" in the eyes of Jordan nut huggers and also the Chi-town press, however his record speaks for itself plain and simple he built a multiple championship winning team.

The bloke looks like a re-incarnation of "Jabba the Hut" and has obvious short comings, however there are those that had a disdain for Jerry West even Red Auerbach for that matter as well, however records and success speak for themselves, he is not entirely responsible for the achievements of the Bulls during that period, but a large component, for i personally don't believe that all success and failures are as a result of the players, that is shared by both coaching and management staff.

Jordan was a great of all time, was he solely responsible for the Bulls success....aaggh sorry no he wasnt.

And as for the decline and breaking up of the Bulls...i am sorry but i believe in the horses for courses statement, a number of those were on the decline or past thier primes - Harper and Pippen to name two.

Now i am not saying the moves made to break the team up were quality, but the time had come no question about that....

Pippen was on the decline and after leaving the Bulls never averaged over 15 ppg. and at best was a secondary talent and not a leader of any franchise...Longley was a decent player but a back-up at best and had one reasonable year in Phoenix, before injuries took the rest of his career, yet he never in my opinion reached his potential after going so high to the T-Wolves...Harper played two more seasons with the Lakers and was solid contributor to a championship or two, however never showed any of the scoring ability/punch that he had with the Cavs and Clipps with either the Bulls or Lakers...Kukoc was a solid player who had a reasonable career in my opinion...always marred by the attachment of being the "European Jordan", but nevertheless was a good player..Kerr c'mon the guy was a semi-reasonable ball handler who could knock down some three's and was a decent on-court leader...but far from a key to success, i rate Paxson's contributions as a player more significant over the course of the Bulls success then Kerr....Rodman's days would be numbered wherever and whenever he played (even in the odd ball ABA2000), he was a classic means to end story for the Bulls...

Also even after the end of the Jordan/Jackson era the following season thier were still seven championship players on the roster, albiet no outright stars but the likes of Harper, Kukoc, Simpkens, Brown, LaRue, Wennington and some other stiff not worth mentioning.

Krause and Floyd together were a terrible combination, i dont know whether on reflection Krause thought Floyd maybe a newer and more succesful version of Rick Pitino or John Calipari, which never eventuated, however whilst Krause is responsible, upon Floyd's arrival at the Bulls the balance and influence power seemed to firmly reflect a new kid on the block...

And to me, whilst Krause has is question marks, i lay a degree of the failure of the Bulls in the late 90's and earlier this decade at the feet of Tim Floyd as well.

 

[jordan23]

Jordan was a great of all time, was he solely responsible for the Bulls success....aaggh sorry no he wasnt.

And as for the decline and breaking up of the Bulls...i am sorry but i believe in the horses for courses statement, a number of those were on the decline or past thier primes - Harper and Pippen to name two.

Now i am not saying the moves made to break the team up were quality, but the time had come no question about that....

Pippen was on the decline and after leaving the Bulls never averaged over 15 ppg. and at best was a secondary talent and not a leader of any franchise...Longley was a decent player but a back-up at best and had one reasonable year in Phoenix, before injuries took the rest of his career, yet he never in my opinion reached his potential after going so high to the T-Wolves...Harper played two more seasons with the Lakers and was solid contributor to a championship or two, however never showed any of the scoring ability/punch that he had with the Cavs and Clipps with either the Bulls or Lakers...Kukoc was a solid player who had a reasonable career in my opinion...always marred by the attachment of being the "European Jordan", but nevertheless was a good player..Kerr c'mon the guy was a semi-reasonable ball handler who could knock down some three's and was a decent on-court leader...but far from a key to success, i rate Paxson's contributions as a player more significant over the course of the Bulls success then Kerr....Rodman's days would be numbered wherever and whenever he played (even in the odd ball ABA2000), he was a classic means to end story for the Bulls...

Also even after the end of the Jordan/Jackson era the following season thier were still seven championship players on the roster, albiet no outright stars but the likes of Harper, Kukoc, Simpkens, Brown, LaRue, Wennington and some other stiff not worth mentioning.

C'mon mate, who f@#$ cares about Krause. Let's not mention him since we all know what he did. Jordan simply wanted to retire as legend and felt it was right time and also didn't want to play a lock-out shortened season.

No i haven't read "When nothing else matters" BUT i do have the book. There have been many bias and false accusations i've read about Jordan during his whole career.Many of which are false. These books are aimmed at becomming best sellers and hardly anything is true.

Jordan was a great of all time, was he solely responsible for the Bulls success....aaggh sorry no he wasnt.

Yes that's true, if there weren't another player of Pippen's caliber on the Bulls roster the Bulls wouldn't of won that many games. Jordan made the others look good, but in actual fact they weren't great without Mike eg.Paxson

Jordan could of won on any team without them, but he needed a Pippen-like player to help him win the rings.

 

[basketoz74]

There was alot more to the success of the Bulls then just Pippen and Jordan, to say otherwise i wonder how much you have seen of them, and not one person has stated any of those players were particularly great.


And whilst you say there are numerous false accusations and reports about Jordan, you base this on what? Personal opinion, knowledge or what you have read in other publications?

I would say like all things there are numerous things not true written about the inner workings of the Bulls organization...to say those claims and accusations are solely written about Jordan which is what you imply by your comments...is either a case of nut hugging or plain simple head in the cloud stuff.

And your referance as to Jordan being able to win on any team/s without them...albiet with a Pippen like support show....he had at least 5 or 6 seasons before the Bulls first championship win playing with the likes of Orlando Woolridge, an aged George Gervin, Sidney Green, Charles Oakley all sound workmanlike players with stats as good as Pippen's....and in Washington with Rip Hamilton and Jerry Stackhouse, certainly no slouches...so he clearly needed additional help and the obtaining of those players was not made by Jordan himself in his role as "NBA Messiah" ...and when he has had that actual allowance his record speaks for itself, Washington...mmm less then impressive...actually they stunk unless you mean putting bumbs on seats and the BobCats while a semi-decent roster is assembled have struggled to achieve anything more then the previous administration had...unless you mean again putting bumbs on seats and potentially more corporate dollars....

 

[steve-o]

my question i want to now is what coach do the bulls need and what trade would help the bulls
i hate seeing the bulls go to shit they need some help fast

 

[steve-o]

if the ozcard people were to come up with chichago bulls team with trades involved i wonder what it would look like

 

[theflyinggerco]

What BROWN???...... I'm hope you don't mean Kwame Brown lol, that guy is one of the worst players in this league.Has no post moves, no jump shot, no speed, no defense, and no potential. He is just flat out a player who is making the NBA slip in appeal and is just an embarrassment to the NBA and every organization.

First up, you talk about Jordan's brillance in the front office, yet you bag the crap out of his #1 pick.

The Bulls have no inside scoring threat... Not nobody who can dominate down low, but pretty much nobody who score, let alone dominate down low. Recently Aaron Gray has been the scorer down low for Bulls, but

Someone like Gasol would be a good fit (depending who they had to give up) as he is a touch soft and is limited defensively (or at the very least is portrayed that way), but pairing him with a defensive minded player such as Wallace, Noah or Thomas, or even Smith.

If they could get Gasol for Thomas/Noah and Gordon, they would be better for it. With the odd collection of talent they have, they need to starting trading for better fitting pieces; even if that means losing out value wise in the deal.

Coaching wise, if they get a low post scorer, you need to get someone who is proven coach of veterans; Hinrich, Wallace and Joe Smith, even Gordon and Deng are past the point of needing to be bullied or revved up every game; they need someone who can motivate without screaming.

If they stay the jump shooting, no interior presence team they are, they really need to get a Mike D'Antoni/ Don Nelson clone; someone who can push the ball, and play an uptempo game; players like Thomas, Gordon and Noah would flourish in that environment, and Hinrich and Deng would provide 3pt and midrange outlets.

The bottom line is Chicago needs to make some hard decisions sooner than later; figure out if they rebuild and revolve around Deng, Thomas and Noah, while shipping out Hinrich, Wallace and Gordon, or even who to keep.

 

[martyaud]

Problems with the bulls and why they should get rid of Paxson.

1. They Paid Ben Wallace too much, he shoot low percentage and all he do is block shots and rebound, and he rarely do that now, he was better with the pistons because of the veteran circle they have

2. Tyrus shouldn't try to gain weight, he is decreasing his athletic ability

3. They need a physical point, because they don't have a low post threat

4. They have too many role players

5. Deng, Kirk, BG7 are secondary stars

GOD DAMN..I'm so pissed off....I couldn't believe John Paxson did this...Skiles is not the person to blame...It is the players..If I were him, I could have changed the roster as soon as possible..

6. THEY ARE NOT PHYSICAL

wow... how did i miss this thread... anyways... from the Chicago press...

1. Skiles is not the blame... hence he is "relieved as Bulls Head Coach".... that is the nicest "you're fired" i've ever heard... Skiles is a decent coach, who can take the best out of semi stars (Gordon/Deng) & take them to the playoffs, he also did it in Phoenix, with Kidd etc.

2. The only thing that I think he lacks is balls, he couldnt stand up for what he wanted (getting Kobe for Deng et la) or get those semi stars to see how he made them better and hence out of loyalty sign a darn contract so not to distract the team. Same thing happen in Phoenix, couldnt get Kidd to sign a longer contract and head office traded Kidd & that was the end of Skiles at Pho.

3. Boylen is now the head coach for the rest of the year.... good luck to him...

4. Play Noah & other benchies, so at the end of the year their value in trade market is more.

5. I am heading downstairs to watch Bulls v Knicks... !!!

 

[jordan23]

There was alot more to the success of the Bulls then just Pippen and Jordan

And your referance as to Jordan being able to win on any team/s without them...albiet with a Pippen like support show..

How did Michael Jordan make his teammates better?

Look at these stats:

Horace Grant 12.63 points 8.7 rebounds (1987-1994, Chicago Bulls with Michael Jordan)

Horace Grant 9.7 Points 7.0 rebounds (1994-2004 Orlando Magic, Seattle Supersonics, LA Lakers)

Big drop? Further more...


BJ Armstrong 10.2 points 3.38 assists (1989-1995 Chicago Bulls with Michael Jordan)

BJ Armstrong averaged 6.4 Points 2.63 assists for 1995-2000 palying for Golden State Warriors, Orlando Charlotte Hornets, Chicago Bulls

These are the teammates you call great... But without Michael Jordan?... How About Pip?

Scottie Pippen averaged 17.63 points 10 Seasons with Michael Jordan

Scottie Pippen averaged 12.51 points in 7 seasons apart from Jordan including the 1993-1994 season he served as interim-leader of the Chicago Bulls.

Yes he needed these guys to win the damn rings but apart from him they were also ordinary cept for Pippen.

How did Michael Jordan made his teammates better again? Please tell me why these players drop their numbers apart from Michael Jordan?

 

[jordan23]

my question i want to now is what coach do the bulls need and what trade would help the bulls
i hate seeing the bulls go to shit they need some help fast

No it's not gonna to happen Steve, until that hothead Paxson get's fired. Paxson is too hesitant to call the shots as seen with his unability to get Kobe and made a worthy coach like Skiles look damm cheap.... he must be chucked out immediately before any coach is found.