ebay / paypal dispute- am I screwed?

[jkidd05]

Hey guys. I'll try keep this short.

I sold a couple cards to a buyer in France. Total value $165, cards stored in one touch cases, shipped with full tracking.

Buyer was charged import taxes by French customs. He is refusing to pick up the package from the post office and demands that I pay the taxes for him!

He has opened an item not received dispute on PayPal claiming it is my fault because I didn't warn him about potential taxes in France and because I declared the items at full value, shipped full tracking rather than standard.

My response- (1) There is no way a seller can be familiar with the laws of different countries; (2) It is actually against the law to falsify documents; (3) I would have had to fill out a customs forms anyway if I shipped standard mail.

Just wondering if anyone has been or know someone who has been in a similar situation?

I think most of us have read many horror stories regarding eBay / PayPal claims. Do I even remotely stand a chance to win the case or am I basically screwed?

Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Jason C]

If you have his messages stating he wants you to pay the taxes before picking up then send them to Ebay and PayPal as he is responsible for any customs charges as the buyer and they will see he is refusing to pickup but knows the items are available for pickup.

 

[Coopz05]

I am normally anti-ebay as Ive been scammed for over $2000 in 2 cases over the last 5yrs.

BUT, I had an issue with someone threatening me last week and came across the chat option.

I actually found them super helpful via chat and they used common sense as opposed to their normal method of automatically making decisions based on a few factors no matter what case is put forward.

She was able to read my messages in my inbox as we chatted too which was all the proof I needed.

Id suggest trying chat.

And good luck!

 

[jkidd05]

If you have his messages stating he wants you to pay the taxes before picking up then send them to Ebay and PayPal as he is responsible for any customs charges as the buyer and they will see he is refusing to pickup but knows the items are available for pickup.

Thanks for the response mate. Yes I forwarded all screenshots of conversation showing his threats and demands, as well as receipts and photos of the package. Also provided a statement detailing my thoughts.

They still say they need to "investigate". Which has me worried that they will take his side.

To me, it couldn't be more black and white.

I am normally anti-ebay as Ive been scammed for over $2000 in 2 cases over the last 5yrs.

BUT, I had an issue with someone threatening me last week and came across the chat option.

I actually found them super helpful via chat and they used common sense as opposed to their normal method of automatically making decisions based on a few factors no matter what case is put forward.

She was able to read my messages in my inbox as we chatted too which was all the proof I needed.

Id suggest trying chat.

And good luck!

Appreciate the response mate! Yeah got in touch with eBay, they said they can't do anything because he went through PayPal first, since PayPal make the final decision on all money disputes, there is no need for eBay to handle it.

Suggest to me, this scammer probably has experience doing this.

Anyway, the fact PayPal said they need to investigate...really has me worried.

 

[Coopz05]

I wonder if you can get on the phone with a human being.

In my experience, paypal function like robots in these scenarios and nearly always side with buyers because theres more buyers than sellers in the world so they use systems like this to keep their trust.

I think you best hope is talking with a real person who can fully listen to your valid points.

Hopefully you dont get a generic response like ‘sorry, that’s not my dept, someone will get back to you soon with the result’

Fingers crossed.

 

[jkidd05]

I wonder if you can get on the phone with a human being.

In my experience, paypal function like robots in these scenarios and nearly always side with buyers because theres more buyers than sellers in the world so they use systems like this to keep their trust.

I think you best hope is talking with a real person who can fully listen to your valid points.

Hopefully you dont get a generic response like ‘sorry, that’s not my dept, someone will get back to you soon with the result’

Fingers crossed.

Yeah its BS, it is the sellers who pay the fees to eBay and PayPal!

The person I spoke to wasn't all that helpful, basically the robotic response you mentioned. They need up to 10 days to "investigate".

It's a real mixed bag with these companies, sometimes you get someone very helpful, but most of the time you get robots who don't care about helping people.

This whole situation would be comical if it weren't for the fact the transaction funds have been frozen and my reputation put at risk. How the hell is he even allowed to open an "item not received" case for such an absurd, ridiculous demand.

 

[jkidd05]

Received an email from PayPal this morning.

Because the buyer has reported that the claim has been amicably resolved,
this case has been closed.

When he escalated the claim, communication had stopped between me and him.

Regardless, a pleasant surprise indeed, a decision that I happily accept

 

[emilsmit-209]

Well done mate. in the future might wanna stick this one on your listing.

International Buyers: Import duties, taxes, and charges aren’t included in the item price or postage cost. These charges are the buyer's responsibility

 

[jkidd05]

Well done mate. in the future might wanna stick this one on your listing.

International Buyers: Import duties, taxes, and charges aren’t included in the item price or postage cost. These charges are the buyer's responsibility

Good point mate! Will be editing my templates for sure.

You'd think it would be common knowledge, especially if the buyer is from an EU country where the laws have been in place for many years. But there are always bad people out there who will try and take advantage.

 

[baggies]

There's something I found on the ebay site which they suggested to copy and paste onto listings and give yourself some cover in case this type of thing occurs. I've pasted it below. You can always add "correct value written on customs form for insurance"


For International buyers – please note: Import duties, taxes, and charges aren’t included in the item price or postage cost. These charges are the buyer's responsibility.
Please check with your country's customs office to determine what these additional costs will be prior to bidding or buying.


I had a buyer from Portugal who purchased some insert sets and his cards got held up at customs. He paid around 40-50% of the value in fees and taxes on top of what he paid for the cards. He complained but I pointed out that I did say it was his responsibility in the listing. He actually left positive feedback on ebay but said he would not buy from me or Australians generally because of this and would share it with his facebook group. He claimed sellers from everywhere else around the world wrote low values.
Like you mentioned though, it's not up to the seller to know the taxes and customs procedures for every country around the world. It's difficult to know what to do for the best with Auspost charging ridiculous fees in comparison to what I pay for postage from overseas when purchasing. They've just announced further fee increases for next month so insurance is $5 for the first $100 then $3.50 for each additional $100. If you fill in the larger form, it's unavoidable to hide the value if paying for insurance. What's the alternative? Send economy letter and hope the buyer is honest and not impatient.
I think you can claim up to $50 from Auspost on economy letter without insurance but payment is discretionary & takes 3 months before you can lodge a claim (I haven't tried it yet). In addition, there is no 'economy letter untracked option' on the ebay dropdown menu so if buyers do not read the postage description, you can end up with cases opened after a couple of weeks which is an unrealistic timeframe really.
Postage jumps from $3 economy up to $20-$33 standard with tracking. I don't see anything inbetween which makes it difficult as a seller.
Are there any other options out there that I'm missing? The registered post paper envelope is no good.

 

[jkidd05]

There's something I found on the ebay site which they suggested to copy and paste onto listings and give yourself some cover in case this type of thing occurs. I've pasted it below. You can always add "correct value written on customs form for insurance"


For International buyers – please note: Import duties, taxes, and charges aren’t included in the item price or postage cost. These charges are the buyer's responsibility.
Please check with your country's customs office to determine what these additional costs will be prior to bidding or buying.


I had a buyer from Portugal who purchased some insert sets and his cards got held up at customs. He paid around 40-50% of the value in fees and taxes on top of what he paid for the cards. He complained but I pointed out that I did say it was his responsibility in the listing. He actually left positive feedback on ebay but said he would not buy from me or Australians generally because of this and would share it with his facebook group. He claimed sellers from everywhere else around the world wrote low values.
Like you mentioned though, it's not up to the seller to know the taxes and customs procedures for every country around the world. It's difficult to know what to do for the best with Auspost charging ridiculous fees in comparison to what I pay for postage from overseas when purchasing. They've just announced further fee increases for next month so insurance is $5 for the first $100 then $3.50 for each additional $100. If you fill in the larger form, it's unavoidable to hide the value if paying for insurance. What's the alternative? Send economy letter and hope the buyer is honest and not impatient.
I think you can claim up to $50 from Auspost on economy letter without insurance but payment is discretionary & takes 3 months before you can lodge a claim (I haven't tried it yet). In addition, there is no 'economy letter untracked option' on the ebay dropdown menu so if buyers do not read the postage description, you can end up with cases opened after a couple of weeks which is an unrealistic timeframe really.
Postage jumps from $3 economy up to $20-$33 standard with tracking. I don't see anything inbetween which makes it difficult as a seller.
Are there any other options out there that I'm missing? The registered post paper envelope is no good.

Thanks mate. Yeah, definitely adding that disclaimer onto my listings!

See that's the part that really annoyed me with what happened these past couple days. If a buyer has specific requests and if issues such as extra fees is something that concerns them, all they have to do is send a message before bidding/buying. It's as simple as that.

Declaring a lower value is risky in itself (not to mention, illegal). Say something happens to the package and you want to claim insurance, the declared value will be all that you are entitled to. So you are putting yourself at risk just so the buyer can avoid paying extra fees.

Your information is correct regarding postage rates. Australia Post (and the government in general) have not done a thing to help online businesses. Most Asian countries offer services that are more efficient and cost effective, making it almost impossible to compete unless you offer the economy option, which as you rightfully pointed out, is not ideal, especially f you encounter a dishonest or impatient buyer.

 

[baggies]

Totally agree mate, if a buyer has a specific request, it shouldn't be difficult to ask first. It's easy to find a translation online if required. Sometimes they ask to write a lower value after payment has been made even when the description says full value on form.
I wish there was a competitive service with tracking or a signature to make life easier. Many overseas sales are risk vs reward due to a lack of postage options. Quite often risk taking a hit or lose the sale or lower the price due to expensive postage.

 

[BobbieFutera]

Hey guys. I'll try keep this short.

I sold a couple cards to a buyer in France. Total value $165, cards stored in one touch cases, shipped with full tracking.

Buyer was charged import taxes by French customs. He is refusing to pick up the package from the post office and demands that I pay the taxes for him!

He has opened an item not received dispute on PayPal claiming it is my fault because I didn't warn him about potential taxes in France and because I declared the items at full value, shipped full tracking rather than standard.

My response- (1) There is no way a seller can be familiar with the laws of different countries; (2) It is actually against the law to falsify documents; (3) I would have had to fill out a customs forms anyway if I shipped standard mail.

Just wondering if anyone has been or know someone who has been in a similar situation?

I think most of us have read many horror stories regarding eBay / PayPal claims. Do I even remotely stand a chance to win the case or am I basically screwed?

Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[BobbieFutera]

Hi Guys.
Here's a bit of an insight from the UK.
I'm both a seller an buyer on eBay, so I see things from both sides. Basically, in the UK (and as far as I know throughout the E.U.) all items coming in from outside the E.U. are liable to an import tax (VAT) at 20% as well as a fee of £8 to Royal Mail for holding the item for the tax to be paid. In most cases, I will always ask sellers beforehand if they would be willing to mark the value at a particular amount so that I can bypass the fees, in particular, the Royal Mail charge as the tax itself is usually minimal. As for your French buyer, they would have been well aware of the charges, that is, unless they are totally new to the game. You'll probably have to wait it out and the package will be returned to sender after the specified time has elapsed, I think it's 8 weeks here in the UK.
I'm not surprised to hear of eBay's lack of help on the matter towards the seller as this is always the stance they take. Found this out on several occasions myself when I was trying to sort out problems with selling issues, even to the point of them closing my account down (due to an issue that came about due to me following their own instructions) which they reinstated almost 18 months later.

 

[baggies]

Not cheap is it? Hope you have a bit more in the way of postage options than we do.

Ebay started charging the 10% GST tax to Australians for all overseas purchases including postage on ebay in July passing it on from the govt. They'll probably make a handy profit and push more buyers like myself to dodgy overseas mailboxes avoiding the 10% and bulking postage but not without risk.

 

[BobbieFutera]

Next step will be to try and get you to sign up to the eBay Global shipping programme, now that's a total ripoff to buyers as there are so many hidden add-ons that the sellers aren't made aware of and the buyers find out the hard way.

 

[emilsmit-209]

Im going to close my ebay very soon as i got told if im going to sell more than 40 listing its better to open one up and as soon as i signed on to it i can't put more than 100 now due to my sales is not enough there rip off