Amy/Ray strikes again?? STOLEN: Michael Jordan Fleer Playmakers 88/100

Discussion in 'Basketball - General Discussion' started by coolz, Sep 22, 2011.

  1. coolz

    coolz OzCardTrader

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    I'm just helping this guy that posted this on HK forum:
    THIS CARD IS NOT MINE!!!!



    Hey everyone.

    I just posted the below to eBay in hope that anyone who may be offered this card for sale hear the story and does not buy the card, as it's a very serious matter. If any of you have any information on this, or know anything I don't, I'd love to hear about it here.

    This isn't the first time a thread has been started related to Amy in Australia (who goes by a ton of eBay screen names).

    -Nat

    ____

    I am a major buyer of rare Michael Jordan cards. On March 17, 2011 I purchased a Michael Jordan Fleer Playmaker's Theater BGS 9 serial numbered 088/100 (here is a link to the original auction: eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices). After successfully receiving the card after winning the auction (for $3,250), I scanned the card and posted it to my personal collection (link here: 1998-99 Fleer Tradition Playmakers Theatre Michael Jordan #9 BGS 9 /100 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!). You can clearly see the serial #.

    On June 16th, I mailed the card to Beckett Grading Services (BGS) in Dallas hoping to have the grade bumped up to a 9.5 via USPS. I also sent along two other cards, both high-end Lebron James cards (one is scanned here before I sent it: 2003-04 Topps Contemporary Gold LeBron James #1 BGS 9 /25 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!). Beckett never received the cards.

    About a month and a half later, my exact card which never arrived to BGS showed up on eBay for a conspicuously low BIN ($2,700) from a seller in Dallas (the same city that BGS is located in). The auction of course ended quickly, with better_cover_lover (who now goes by the_pirates_parrot). The seller was xedbats, whose name is Michael Becker (link to auction: 1998-99 Fleer Playmakers Michael Jordan BGS 9 SP 88/100 | eBay). I talked to Michael after locating his phone number, and he promised to hang onto the card and not sell it to better_cover_lover or anyone until we resolve things. His story at the time was that someone walked into his store in Dallas and offered him the card sight-unseen for $2,000 cash, which he paid, and then he posted the card on eBay not knowing it's true value but wanted to make a quick buck. As soon as I talked to Michael on the phone, I messaged better_cover_lover over eBay knowing that she (Amy) bought/won the auction, alerting her to the fact that Michael/xedbats was selling a card that was stolen from me, and therefore she should not pay for the item as she would be buying stolen property.

    Unfortunately, Michael went dark soon after that and never returned any of my calls or emails. In the meantime, I flew to Dallas and met with the police and postal police, and started cases with both for the stolen property which presumably was stolen out of the mail. The theory being, someone recognized who the recipient was (BGS), knew that cards that were worth grading were contained inside, and kept the package.

    Now, today, about 5 friends of mine who are big Jordan collectors have emailed me a scan of my card, with the same serial # (088/100), which has (as expected) been successfully bumped up to a 9.5 by BGS, which is being offered for sale by better_cover_lover / the_pirates_parrot. This person is Amy from Australia. In fairness to Amy, I have successfully purchased many cards from her on eBay and have had no problems, however that doesn't change the fact that she is currently in possession of my high-end stolen card which she bought from Michael Becker. It appears that she/better_cover_lover/Amy/the_pirates_parrot knowingly, after me having alerted her to the fact, bought the stolen card from Michael Becker in Dallas, got the card bumped by BGS, and is now offering it for sale.

    I have attached two photos of the card, the first in BGS 9 form of when I owned it, and the second in BGS 9.5 form that Amy is currently offering for sale. I personally find it very unethical that she would go out of her way to buy this card KNOWING that it is stolen, and then go about selling it. That doesn't speak highly to her business practices, which many people have questioned in the past.

    DO NOT BUY THIS CARD. It is stolen property, and will need to ultimately be returned to me. I am working with the authorities both in the US and Australia now to have the card recovered. If you buy this card, you are buying stolen property. I have received countless legal advice on the matter, which is unanimously centered that if you buy stolen property, and it's discovered as such, the rightful owner has the right to have the property returned without consideration (as it should be). Which is why it's important to obtain proof of ownership when you buy something high-end (such as a car, etc...). Worse, knowingly selling private property is an offense.

    Please contact me at natsturner@gmail.com or 281-923-9417 if you have any more information. Thank you

    -Nat
     
  2. Digeze

    Digeze DIGGAZ TC OZCT Supporter

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    DAMN! Would make me think twice about actually sending anything for grading at BGS.
     
  3. lilreddevil

    lilreddevil KD35

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    Shiiettttt and here we go again.
     
  4. coolz

    coolz OzCardTrader

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    haha not surprising by now, isn't it?
    we'll probably see a thread about Ray/Amy every week or two
     
  5. lilreddevil

    lilreddevil KD35

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    Not really. But what surprises me is the various ways Ray/Amy strikes with. Everytime it's something new. Like this one. I've never heard of it been done before, collectors are warned and then bang, there's another tactic and someone else loses out :(
     
  6. banzini

    banzini OzCardTrader

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    The the_pirates_parrot is a disgrace. Why pay for and accept .......let alone SELL an item which is known to be stolen? They, in my mind, are involved and are just as bad as whoever concocted this charade.
     
  7. LeRoy

    LeRoy NBA and UFC Collector OZCT Supporter

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    fark! this is hectic stuff!!!
    sorry to go off the main subject a little but why would someone send a graded card to get graded again in the hope of it getting 9.5 in the 1st place??? im not that experienced in getting grading done on hi end stuff but if the same grading company done it in the first place its not like the card is magically gonna upgrade and repair itself in a hardcase...a $3k BGS 9 Mint Jordan is such a epic card i wouldnt even contemplate doing anything other than putting it somewhere 100% safe and secure for piece of mind...
     
  8. Cebru

    Cebru Huh?

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    .... and yet people have been in the presence of this Raymy entity, and nothing.
     
  9. DGCollectables

    DGCollectables www.DGCollectables.com.au

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    wow, another one!
     
  10. GarnettFan4Life

    GarnettFan4Life 1st Ballot Hall Of Fame OZCT Supporter

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    have a read


    In my opinion, a very unethical practice in the hobby is. - Blowout Cards Forums
     
  11. wbonus

    wbonus Banned User

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    But doesnt this happen all the time?

    I think we are hating on parrots for the sake of hating now. We blame them for everything. Here you have some guy that sends a card in the mail uninsured and it gets lost/stolen. It ends up in a Dallas card shop who puts it up for sale on ebay and Bondgirl buys it. All we are concerned about here is how bondgirl is wrong. Is that it? Is that all thats wrong here?

    How about the guy didnt insure a $3k card and sent it regular mail.? I guess nothing wrong with that
    How about a postal work stole the card? A federal Offense which carries Jail time. I guess nothing wrong with that.
    How about the dallas card shop owner selling it after the owner emailed him and told him not to:? I guess nothing wrong with that.
    As soon as it hits Bondgirls hands (legally bought and paid for the card) it all goes to hell lol.

    Im not sticking up for bondgirl, but this witch hunt is pretty crazy now. The fact that 4 steps went array and everyone turns a blind eye to it kind of makes me realize that this isnt about whats right or wrong. Its about a popularity contest. If you are popular, the mass will agree with you no matter what you say.

    In the past there have been same issues. On BO brandon/pack trade for MJ/Kobe auto /10. Stolen. Ends up on ebay and nismo buys it. He then sells it. Yet none of you were up in arms over that. I guess thats because he is a popular member. It went under the radar!

    Sorry folks, this happens every day. Its tough enough tracking down stolen cards, but believe me...Its even tougher proving you actually own a stolen card.
     
  12. LeRoy

    LeRoy NBA and UFC Collector OZCT Supporter

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  13. supertoad

    supertoad OzCardTrader

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    Can't believe it, again.
     
  14. hairyangryfella

    hairyangryfella Tag Team Quads 93/94

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    Only that..??

    I actually hated that situation with Rod and tried to make some subtle comments without starting a fight. Got nowhere.

    Just a couple of adds about the rest of your post:
    1) The guy was a bit of an idiot for how he posted it
    2) If you were a seller and got a random message asking you not to sell something because it was stolen how you would react? It could be a trick.
    3) Bondgirl was apparently told it was stolen and not to follow through with it but did. Saw a bargain and the morals (if there were any) went out the door...
     
  15. wbonus

    wbonus Banned User

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    Rods situation was difference. In the sense that they parties that had the card stolen ended up getting paid out by insurance. Once that is done, the card is legit and rod can do what he wants with it. I agree with that. There is no reason why those 2 should get paid out and get the card back for free. Then insurance is getting scammed. Once insurance pays out, it usually dont go ahead and look to recouperate the loss.

    If im the seller and got the random message, id ignore it. Evenmore so, because I dont check my ebay mail all the time, I probably would have read it after ive already sold and shipped it. But I know why he ended up going quiet and sending it. Because if he doesnt, he is technically out $2k. The cops will take the card and give it to the rightful owner and he would get nothing. Knowing that, he probably went quiet and sold/shipped it out. I would have done the same thing. Why should I be out $2k because someone else ripped another person off. Why should he be teh 2nd innocent victim??

    As for bondgirl buying it? There is nothing but an ethical / moral obligation to doing good being broken here. They didnt rip anyone off. They are in business. They bought a card for a good price. Whether it was stolen by someone else and sold by party #2 it doesnt matter. They havent done anything wrong. They are buyin ga card on ebay for a price they committed to buy. Thats it. Exactly in Rods case. He had nothing to do with the theft. He was just on the end of getting a bargain. Why should they have to suffer? And for people with Morals. You and I both know this hobby has no morals. There are people here who would sell their mothers to fill their collection if they could! Sad...but unfortunately true.


    Heres a question for you.

    You bought that Wilt on ebay for $1200. You pay for it and the guy ships it out to you. I email you 2 days later and tell you its stolen. So just hold it and dont do anything. Once I prove its stolen, you will give me the card and thats the end of it. You will not get back your $1200. Im sorry but its not your card eventhough you paid $1200 for it. It is mine. How would you feel? And if knew this would happen what would you do? Just sum it up and eat the loss? Or fight it/sell it and move on? There is no reason for you to take the hit at all.

    In my opinion that card was going to be sold no matter what. If it wasnt bondgirl who bought, there would have been someone else.
     
  16. A_Iverson_I

    A_Iverson_I OzCardTrader

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    Here we go again...... sticking up for Ray once again, even if you say you aren't.

    Whilst it may be a stupid thing to do, no, there is nothing wrong with it.

    Well unless we know who it is, then we don't know who to point the finger at now do we!?

    Obviously that guy doesn't have much morals and I don't see anyone sticking up for him either.

    I don't think it's "legal" to buy stolen goods ;) Additionally, I believe this thread was about that it was a very unethical thing to do to buy a card that you were told was stolen and no matter how you try to twist it that's what he/she did.

    Can't recall that, so can't comment sorry.

    Bondgirl and morals don't belong in the same sentence! :lol:
     
  17. hairyangryfella

    hairyangryfella Tag Team Quads 93/94

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    Sounds like you see nothing wrong with buying stolen goods...?

    Also, (aside from the fact that I bought the Wilt for $1800) if that was the situation I'd have returned the card to the seller for a refund and let the seller and the 'owner' sort it out. The seller would know where he got it from and could go from there to resolve the issue. I would want nothing to do with it.
     
  18. wbonus

    wbonus Banned User

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    I can almost guarentee the seller would not give you a refund.

    I see nothing wrong with not wanting to lose my money. Its as basic as I can put it. The original owner fell short and skimped by not getting insurance. So what essentially happens is you become his insurance. You will be out the money and he will recover everything. Thats why I have issues with taking the hit on stolen goods.

    Just because someone says they are stolen without proof does not deem them the law. For everything you buy hairy, im gonna email you and say its stolen and you better hold on to it. Im sure you wouldnt. My point to that is this person made the mistake of not insuring it, took a loss and now is trying to get someone else to pay for his mistake.

    The real person who needs to be prosecuted here is the mail theif. No one else. Because honestly if you cant find a guilty person in the initial crime, then why should other parties be convicted of something they never did? And thats theft.
     
  19. hairyangryfella

    hairyangryfella Tag Team Quads 93/94

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    Yeah but you said "Once I prove its stolen"...

    But I do agree with you, the original owner was foolish to not get it insured and the bigger issue is the mail theft.
     
  20. ooneil

    ooneil OzCardTrader

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    There always seems to be common link in these stories - Raymy.

    Fingers crossed she gets arrested for recieving stolen goods. What a dirtbag.
     

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